Comments on: Do We Have to Wait for the Next Mayor for a Car-free Market Street? http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/ Covering San Francisco's livable streets movement Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:22:47 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Jeff http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4435 Jeff Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:42:30 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4435 What a grand street market used to be I remember my parents telling me when they lived and played there back in the 1920's and 30's, my father sold news papers out in front of the Crystal Palace market and my mom wore her skates and would skate down Market with friends. The Elephant in the picture represents to me our city right now under Newsom, marching along like a wounded elephant waiting for it's rebirth into a rich historic city once again when the elephant in the picture will march happy down the street. What a grand street market used to be I remember my parents telling me when they lived and played there back in the 1920's and 30's, my father sold news papers out in front of the Crystal Palace market and my mom wore her skates and would skate down Market with friends. The Elephant in the picture represents to me our city right now under Newsom, marching along like a wounded elephant waiting for it's rebirth into a rich historic city once again when the elephant in the picture will march happy down the street.

]]> By: those dudes http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4075 those dudes Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:24:01 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4075 Got to agree with marcos on this one. The SFBC's advocacy has been too disjointed - they can't seem to decide what their priorities are, and as a consequence have never developed a coherent (and feasible) vision for what they want Market Street to look like, which is a critical step to getting "stakeholders" on board - which in the case of Market Street is probably a combo of commuters, residents, and downtown interests, especially those that believe (wrong or right) that they depend on Market Street auto access to suceed. Got to agree with marcos on this one. The SFBC's advocacy has been too disjointed - they can't seem to decide what their priorities are, and as a consequence have never developed a coherent (and feasible) vision for what they want Market Street to look like, which is a critical step to getting "stakeholders" on board - which in the case of Market Street is probably a combo of commuters, residents, and downtown interests, especially those that believe (wrong or right) that they depend on Market Street auto access to suceed.

]]> By: Jamison Wieser http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4031 Jamison Wieser Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:25:14 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4031 As soon as you say car-free anything you're spoiling for a fight, maybe a lawsuit and a swarm of angry merchants claiming it will put them out of business. I can see this turn into a decade long fight which just puts off any short term improvements that could be made. There's some things that could be done right now (by "now" I mean as soon as the injunction is lifted) such as the the striping and sign improvements that (as marcos pointed out) the TA already studied and wrote up recommendations. Along with clearly marked bike and transit lanes in their own color, adding a couple forced right turns for auto traffic will shift traffic away from Market Street so in the future it will be easier to make an outright ban since no one will be left driving it from one end to the other. As soon as you say car-free anything you're spoiling for a fight, maybe a lawsuit and a swarm of angry merchants claiming it will put them out of business. I can see this turn into a decade long fight which just puts off any short term improvements that could be made.

There's some things that could be done right now (by "now" I mean as soon as the injunction is lifted) such as the the striping and sign improvements that (as marcos pointed out) the TA already studied and wrote up recommendations. Along with clearly marked bike and transit lanes in their own color, adding a couple forced right turns for auto traffic will shift traffic away from Market Street so in the future it will be easier to make an outright ban since no one will be left driving it from one end to the other.

]]> By: Donovan b http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4029 Donovan b Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:26:24 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4029 Why is mayoral support crucial? Because without it, without Newsom (or whoever is next) saying, "Market Street will be redesigned and it will be built," the naysayers will know they have the opportunity to turn the whole thing sour, just like they are able to do with plans and projects all across the city. The political process - that means both the Board and the Mayor - keeps itself open to last minute deals with special interests that undermine the entire public outreach effort and threaten, at the very least, the integrity of the plan. This is the nature of SF politics - always open to influence by special interests, right up to the very last moment. A definitive statement and a real show of leadership from the Mayor would go a long way at shutting this carnival down and change the tone of the discussion. Is Newsom or any "progressive" Supe up to the task? Doubt it. Why is mayoral support crucial? Because without it, without Newsom (or whoever is next) saying, "Market Street will be redesigned and it will be built," the naysayers will know they have the opportunity to turn the whole thing sour, just like they are able to do with plans and projects all across the city. The political process - that means both the Board and the Mayor - keeps itself open to last minute deals with special interests that undermine the entire public outreach effort and threaten, at the very least, the integrity of the plan. This is the nature of SF politics - always open to influence by special interests, right up to the very last moment. A definitive statement and a real show of leadership from the Mayor would go a long way at shutting this carnival down and change the tone of the discussion. Is Newsom or any "progressive" Supe up to the task? Doubt it.

]]> By: Greg http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4026 Greg Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:55:41 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4026 "coordination and leadership will come from our office, but we need to take it out of the politics of city hall and engage the key stakeholders. The time is ripe for a broader conversation." If someone can translate that for me into English, I'd appreciate it. Personally whenever I hear a buzzword like "stakeholders" that almost ensures we're going down a path that will end with no one happy...it's a meaningless word that is only used by government bureaucrats. Besides, the mayor is busy driving an SUV around the state running for Governor...if you're expecting The Mayor to lead on this, good luck with that. I, however will wait until I see something real about what changes to Market St. would be like. A vague, fuzzy sense of "get rid of cars" isn't enough. There are benefits to changing Market St (do we not recall that at one point virtually no cars ran on this street back in the day?) that would benefit everyone, but vague policy talk isn't enough just yet. "coordination and leadership will come from our office, but we need to take it out of the politics of city hall and engage the key stakeholders. The time is ripe for a broader conversation."

If someone can translate that for me into English, I'd appreciate it. Personally whenever I hear a buzzword like "stakeholders" that almost ensures we're going down a path that will end with no one happy...it's a meaningless word that is only used by government bureaucrats.

Besides, the mayor is busy driving an SUV around the state running for Governor...if you're expecting The Mayor to lead on this, good luck with that.

I, however will wait until I see something real about what changes to Market St. would be like. A vague, fuzzy sense of "get rid of cars" isn't enough. There are benefits to changing Market St (do we not recall that at one point virtually no cars ran on this street back in the day?) that would benefit everyone, but vague policy talk isn't enough just yet.

]]> By: Justin Fraser http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4025 Justin Fraser Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:50:50 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4025 Mayor Newsom should do himself a favor and resign so he can concentrate on his run for Governor. Mayor Newsom should do himself a favor and resign so he can concentrate on his run for Governor.

]]> By: marcos http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4023 marcos Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:34:23 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4023 Andy, the SFBC has 10,000 members. The ED of the SFBC sat on the MTA Board, actually resigned at Newsom's behest when she did not have to, and spearheaded what initiatives again during her tenure on the governance body of the MTA to change departmental policy in ways would have made this project easier? If you all cannot leverage that kind of strength into political power to move your agenda after all of these years, after we elect a majority of progressive, bike-friendly supervisors to office over and again...then seriously, dude! The strength to weight ratio here is practically imperceptible, heavyweights unable to take or throw a punch but always willing to blame others for their failures. Market Street has been in the study cooker for 8 years now, it is not anything new. What did we drop $100,000K on back in the day if not to study this? It is not like the SFBC has been occupied over the past five years advocating for bike lane approval or anything that would distract efforts on Market Street that they did not have time to work on this since 2005 when the Bike Plan was first restrained. It is always someone else's fault, isn't it? But, no, let's focus on approving all 56 bike lanes in the Bike Plan first because there are no other priorities such as Market Street, and the MTA has infinite capacity. -marc Andy, the SFBC has 10,000 members.

The ED of the SFBC sat on the MTA Board, actually resigned at Newsom's behest when she did not have to, and spearheaded what initiatives again during her tenure on the governance body of the MTA to change departmental policy in ways would have made this project easier?

If you all cannot leverage that kind of strength into political power to move your agenda after all of these years, after we elect a majority of progressive, bike-friendly supervisors to office over and again...then seriously, dude!

The strength to weight ratio here is practically imperceptible, heavyweights unable to take or throw a punch but always willing to blame others for their failures.

Market Street has been in the study cooker for 8 years now, it is not anything new. What did we drop $100,000K on back in the day if not to study this? It is not like the SFBC has been occupied over the past five years advocating for bike lane approval or anything that would distract efforts on Market Street that they did not have time to work on this since 2005 when the Bike Plan was first restrained.

It is always someone else's fault, isn't it?

But, no, let's focus on approving all 56 bike lanes in the Bike Plan first because there are no other priorities such as Market Street, and the MTA has infinite capacity.

-marc

]]> By: Andy Thornley http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4021 Andy Thornley Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:24:04 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4021 Not to pile on the poor SFMTA, but it's important to point out that their enforcement arm (remember DPT?) hasn't been employed with much focus or benefit on the Market St corridor, for the sake of MTA's Muni and bicycle networks, clearing the right-of-way for bike and transit traffic. It's always an eye-roller when we hear excuses about how hard it is for City agencies to work together, but why can't MTA's enforcement division work to keep MTA's top transit and bike corridor moving efficiently? Show us how MTA manages right-of-way for priority modes on Market St and perhaps (in addition to making Market St work better) they'd buy some cred on proposals to dedicate further right of way to Muni (e.g. Van Ness & Geary BRT) . . . Not to pile on the poor SFMTA, but it's important to point out that their enforcement arm (remember DPT?) hasn't been employed with much focus or benefit on the Market St corridor, for the sake of MTA's Muni and bicycle networks, clearing the right-of-way for bike and transit traffic. It's always an eye-roller when we hear excuses about how hard it is for City agencies to work together, but why can't MTA's enforcement division work to keep MTA's top transit and bike corridor moving efficiently? Show us how MTA manages right-of-way for priority modes on Market St and perhaps (in addition to making Market St work better) they'd buy some cred on proposals to dedicate further right of way to Muni (e.g. Van Ness & Geary BRT) . . .

]]> By: Peter http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4020 Peter Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:46:30 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4020 minus the elephant, that's a pretty cool-looking Market Street! minus the elephant, that's a pretty cool-looking Market Street!

]]> By: MichaelSF http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/09/do-we-have-to-wait-for-the-next-mayor-for-a-car-free-market-street/comment-page-1/#comment-4018 MichaelSF Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:30:34 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1705#comment-4018 Market Street erodes and tanks as the Mayor's office blows off one rather large group of stakeholders: cyclists, pedestrians, drivers, merchants, residents. Where'd that home base go on the way to Sacramento? Do we need to Facebook the Mayor to really get his attention? Props to DPW director Reisken for taking on the role of instigator with a larger vision of what's possible. Market Street erodes and tanks as the Mayor's office blows off one rather large group of stakeholders: cyclists, pedestrians, drivers, merchants, residents. Where'd that home base go on the way to Sacramento? Do we need to Facebook the Mayor to really get his attention?

Props to DPW director Reisken for taking on the role of instigator with a larger vision of what's possible.

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