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	<title>Comments on: MTA Mulls Scenarios for Moving Bike Plan Forward</title>
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	<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/</link>
	<description>Covering San Francisco&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: Pylondude</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4181</link>
		<dc:creator>Pylondude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4181</guid>
		<description>8 - 80? I&#039;m all for it!
The funny thing about people dropping off their kids at school is why? On my alternate route North, I pass traffic for the SF Day School and Raoul Wallenberg (traditional) high school.  I am always amazed and at the same time appalled at the amount of students being driven to school. I knew that San Francisco has been suburbanized by auto traffic but...

Then I wonder about the obesity problem with children, then I come back to reality when I almost get nailed by a parent in a car dropping off his/her kids while I&#039;m busy causing safety issues by being on a bike. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8 &#8211; 80? I&#8217;m all for it!<br />
The funny thing about people dropping off their kids at school is why? On my alternate route North, I pass traffic for the SF Day School and Raoul Wallenberg (traditional) high school.  I am always amazed and at the same time appalled at the amount of students being driven to school. I knew that San Francisco has been suburbanized by auto traffic but&#8230;</p>
<p>Then I wonder about the obesity problem with children, then I come back to reality when I almost get nailed by a parent in a car dropping off his/her kids while I&#8217;m busy causing safety issues by being on a bike. <img src='http://sf.streetsblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andy Thornley</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4179</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Thornley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4179</guid>
		<description>By all means, let&#039;s study a protected / separated bikeway up and down Masonic, I think it&#039;s possible and I know there are some smart people in town who&#039;ve already been thinking about it. No doubt there are better ways to arrange Masonic for all users and uses (including and especially two-wheeling 8-year-olds and their grandmas); the MTA has fresh money for a &quot;complete street&quot; study for the corridor and all these great ideas need to go into that effort, but that&#039;s going to take a while to carry out, it&#039;ll be a couple of years or more till it bears fruit.  In the meantime we&#039;ve got plans we could implement tomorrow, already studied in the Bike Plan EIR (at significant expense in time and money) -- let&#039;s see whether we can stripe some sort of bike lanes now (go from grade F to C) and follow on promptly with planning for a Grade A bikeway . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By all means, let&#8217;s study a protected / separated bikeway up and down Masonic, I think it&#8217;s possible and I know there are some smart people in town who&#8217;ve already been thinking about it. No doubt there are better ways to arrange Masonic for all users and uses (including and especially two-wheeling 8-year-olds and their grandmas); the MTA has fresh money for a &#8220;complete street&#8221; study for the corridor and all these great ideas need to go into that effort, but that&#8217;s going to take a while to carry out, it&#8217;ll be a couple of years or more till it bears fruit.  In the meantime we&#8217;ve got plans we could implement tomorrow, already studied in the Bike Plan EIR (at significant expense in time and money) &#8212; let&#8217;s see whether we can stripe some sort of bike lanes now (go from grade F to C) and follow on promptly with planning for a Grade A bikeway . . .</p>
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		<title>By: jdub</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4176</link>
		<dc:creator>jdub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4176</guid>
		<description>@cbrinkman &amp; pylondude: There seems to be an emerging position that protected bike lanes on Masonic should be studied.  We really should be pushing for the 8-80 year old standard for our new bike lanes as cbrinkman suggested.  What do you say, Andy T?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cbrinkman &amp; pylondude: There seems to be an emerging position that protected bike lanes on Masonic should be studied.  We really should be pushing for the 8-80 year old standard for our new bike lanes as cbrinkman suggested.  What do you say, Andy T?</p>
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		<title>By: CBrinkman</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4173</link>
		<dc:creator>CBrinkman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4173</guid>
		<description>&quot;I see your point regarding the location of the parking lane but could you not have gaps in the parking lane for curb cuts just as you would if the parking lane were adjacent to the curb? I suppose it might be unsafe if you are riding along and a car turns into the bike lane.&quot;

How often is each driveway curb cut used I wonder - twice a day? Four times a day?  I would be happy to watch out for cars turning into their garages - especially if there were a wee speed bump at the edge of the parking lane which would slow them down before they turned across the parking lane into my buffered bike lane.  How lovely it would be to pedal up Masonic buffered by a line of parked cars - why I bet parents would even allow children to bike to school in that lane. Perhaps the parking spots on the leading edge of the drveway would have to be reserved for small cars over which the drivers could see cyclists, no vans or SUVs which would block views of an approaching cyclist.   We don&#039;t have anything like it, but we need it on a street like Masonic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I see your point regarding the location of the parking lane but could you not have gaps in the parking lane for curb cuts just as you would if the parking lane were adjacent to the curb? I suppose it might be unsafe if you are riding along and a car turns into the bike lane.&#8221;</p>
<p>How often is each driveway curb cut used I wonder &#8211; twice a day? Four times a day?  I would be happy to watch out for cars turning into their garages &#8211; especially if there were a wee speed bump at the edge of the parking lane which would slow them down before they turned across the parking lane into my buffered bike lane.  How lovely it would be to pedal up Masonic buffered by a line of parked cars &#8211; why I bet parents would even allow children to bike to school in that lane. Perhaps the parking spots on the leading edge of the drveway would have to be reserved for small cars over which the drivers could see cyclists, no vans or SUVs which would block views of an approaching cyclist.   We don&#8217;t have anything like it, but we need it on a street like Masonic.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4163</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 06:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4163</guid>
		<description>first time i ever heard of a &#039;floating bike lane&#039; - even though i use it all the time, apparently.

http://tinyurl.com/d97oh4 (PDF)

that Masonic picture &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; pretty incredible. it&#039;s all about cars.

let&#039;s go ahead and start pushing for cycletracks, now. i don&#039;t know what the best solution looks like for us, but parking cars should get priority over transportation. The road should be designed to facilitate traffic flow -- pedestrian, bike, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>first time i ever heard of a &#8216;floating bike lane&#8217; &#8211; even though i use it all the time, apparently.</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/d97oh4" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/d97oh4</a> (PDF)</p>
<p>that Masonic picture <em>is</em> pretty incredible. it&#8217;s all about cars.</p>
<p>let&#8217;s go ahead and start pushing for cycletracks, now. i don&#8217;t know what the best solution looks like for us, but parking cars should get priority over transportation. The road should be designed to facilitate traffic flow &#8212; pedestrian, bike, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Thornley</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4162</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Thornley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 04:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4162</guid>
		<description>Broadway between Polk and Webster is SF Bike Route 10 (east of Polk Rte 10 is on Pacific over the north shoulder of Nob Hill, bypassing the Broadway Tunnel; Broadway through the tunnel is spur Rte 210; at Powell, Rte 10 jogs over and rejoins Broadway east to the bay). We got out and looked at Pacific yesterday and it&#039;s a very pleasant and low-traffic street along that Polk-Webster stretch, but 40&#039; wide and less, too narrow for a bike lane unless curb parking was removed from one side (not likely for now).

Broadway really does need a diet, it&#039;s got way too much pavement and I can see why the neighbors wanted something done to scale it down. With no special project called for, Broadway will get sharrows because it&#039;s Rte 10, which is all right, but they&#039;ll got lost in the vastness of the pavement, unless SFMTA steps up their guidance and sets them out every 50 feet, rather than every 250 feet. But hang on, this is crazy -- Broadway is a numbered bike route with room for bike lanes and several schools located along it -- the bike route should be connecting the schools to the community, right? I know this isn&#039;t Davis, but really, when are we going to put automobility below self-propulsion when it comes to access to schools? Real stakeholders work to remove the danger, they don&#039;t bring more danger to the neighborhood and call it &quot;safety&quot; . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Broadway between Polk and Webster is SF Bike Route 10 (east of Polk Rte 10 is on Pacific over the north shoulder of Nob Hill, bypassing the Broadway Tunnel; Broadway through the tunnel is spur Rte 210; at Powell, Rte 10 jogs over and rejoins Broadway east to the bay). We got out and looked at Pacific yesterday and it&#8217;s a very pleasant and low-traffic street along that Polk-Webster stretch, but 40&#8242; wide and less, too narrow for a bike lane unless curb parking was removed from one side (not likely for now).</p>
<p>Broadway really does need a diet, it&#8217;s got way too much pavement and I can see why the neighbors wanted something done to scale it down. With no special project called for, Broadway will get sharrows because it&#8217;s Rte 10, which is all right, but they&#8217;ll got lost in the vastness of the pavement, unless SFMTA steps up their guidance and sets them out every 50 feet, rather than every 250 feet. But hang on, this is crazy &#8212; Broadway is a numbered bike route with room for bike lanes and several schools located along it &#8212; the bike route should be connecting the schools to the community, right? I know this isn&#8217;t Davis, but really, when are we going to put automobility below self-propulsion when it comes to access to schools? Real stakeholders work to remove the danger, they don&#8217;t bring more danger to the neighborhood and call it &#8220;safety&#8221; . . .</p>
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		<title>By: jdub</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4160</link>
		<dc:creator>jdub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4160</guid>
		<description>Greg,

I see your point regarding the location of the parking lane but could you not have gaps in the parking lane for curb cuts just as you would if the parking lane were adjacent to the curb?  I suppose it might be unsafe if you are riding along and a car turns into the bike lane.

Is there another street near Masonic that would be a better fit for a bike lane or bike boulevard?  Even with bike lanes, riding on Masonic would be pretty unpleasant, similar to riding on Embarcadero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,</p>
<p>I see your point regarding the location of the parking lane but could you not have gaps in the parking lane for curb cuts just as you would if the parking lane were adjacent to the curb?  I suppose it might be unsafe if you are riding along and a car turns into the bike lane.</p>
<p>Is there another street near Masonic that would be a better fit for a bike lane or bike boulevard?  Even with bike lanes, riding on Masonic would be pretty unpleasant, similar to riding on Embarcadero.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Thornley</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4159</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Thornley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4159</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that Masonic diagram is a preliminary concept that was worked up for Fix Masonic&#039;s community-based planning effort last year, but it does show lane dimensions at the most constrained part of Masonic, between Turk and Golden Gate, as analyzed in the Bike Plan EIR for Project 3-2, Option 1:

14&#039; dynamic lane
9.5&#039; travel lane
9&#039; turn lane in the center
9.5&#039; travel lane
14&#039; dynamic lane

Off-peak, there would be a single travel lane in each direction, car parking along the curb (9&#039; T-marked), 5&#039; bike lane floating between parking and travel lane. During AM peak, parking on the east side of Masonic (NB) would be suspended, revealing a 4&#039; bike lane at the curb and providing a second 10&#039; travel lane to the left of it. During PM peak, the same thing would happen on the west (SB) side of the street.

I took the liberty of allocating the 14&#039; of dynamic lane as 9&#039; park/5&#039; bike, rather than 8&#039;/6&#039;, not sure what the MTA crew would say to that but I think it&#039;s better to set the right edge of the bike lane further from car doors, especially on a downhill, and skimp a little on the bike lane width.

Anyhow, as to Muni impacts, yes, those 9.5&#039; &amp; 10&#039; lanes are tight for buses, but all the pavement will still be there after the stripes are re-arranged, the left-turn lane is new and will help flow motor traffic (right now there&#039;s no left-turn facilitation anywhere along the project length except SB just below Geary onto O&#039;Farrell) and the (off-peak) 43 can hang over left a wee bit as necessary, slow down when you pass, for heaven&#039;s sake . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that Masonic diagram is a preliminary concept that was worked up for Fix Masonic&#8217;s community-based planning effort last year, but it does show lane dimensions at the most constrained part of Masonic, between Turk and Golden Gate, as analyzed in the Bike Plan EIR for Project 3-2, Option 1:</p>
<p>14&#8242; dynamic lane<br />
9.5&#8242; travel lane<br />
9&#8242; turn lane in the center<br />
9.5&#8242; travel lane<br />
14&#8242; dynamic lane</p>
<p>Off-peak, there would be a single travel lane in each direction, car parking along the curb (9&#8242; T-marked), 5&#8242; bike lane floating between parking and travel lane. During AM peak, parking on the east side of Masonic (NB) would be suspended, revealing a 4&#8242; bike lane at the curb and providing a second 10&#8242; travel lane to the left of it. During PM peak, the same thing would happen on the west (SB) side of the street.</p>
<p>I took the liberty of allocating the 14&#8242; of dynamic lane as 9&#8242; park/5&#8242; bike, rather than 8&#8242;/6&#8242;, not sure what the MTA crew would say to that but I think it&#8217;s better to set the right edge of the bike lane further from car doors, especially on a downhill, and skimp a little on the bike lane width.</p>
<p>Anyhow, as to Muni impacts, yes, those 9.5&#8242; &amp; 10&#8242; lanes are tight for buses, but all the pavement will still be there after the stripes are re-arranged, the left-turn lane is new and will help flow motor traffic (right now there&#8217;s no left-turn facilitation anywhere along the project length except SB just below Geary onto O&#8217;Farrell) and the (off-peak) 43 can hang over left a wee bit as necessary, slow down when you pass, for heaven&#8217;s sake . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Riessen</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4153</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Riessen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4153</guid>
		<description>jdub, it would be difficult to implement a 9th Avenue-style separated bike lane on Masonic, or any other SF street, because virtually every property has a driveway.  I&#039;m no fan of curb cuts, but they aren&#039;t going away anytime soon.

I assume the NN graphic depicts a peak period tow-away lane &amp; floating bike lane.  Now that&#039;s a good idea.  However the lanes are likely too narrow for the 43 bus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jdub, it would be difficult to implement a 9th Avenue-style separated bike lane on Masonic, or any other SF street, because virtually every property has a driveway.  I&#8217;m no fan of curb cuts, but they aren&#8217;t going away anytime soon.</p>
<p>I assume the NN graphic depicts a peak period tow-away lane &amp; floating bike lane.  Now that&#8217;s a good idea.  However the lanes are likely too narrow for the 43 bus.</p>
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		<title>By: Pylondude</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4150</link>
		<dc:creator>Pylondude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4150</guid>
		<description>I agree with jdub, I was thinking the same thing when I Iooked at the concept for Masonic. I live in that neighborhood, it can be scary walking along Masonic as a pedestrian but as a cyclist, it&#039;s far worse. I started taking Central going North bound between Hayes and Turk to avoid Masonic. 

I will ride South bound on Masonic from Geary to the Panhandle or at least Hayes. It seems a lot easier to deal with but for some reason, the Northbound traffic is faster and more aggressive especially on weekdays but even weekends are scary.

To illustrate, I was once riding to Trader Joe&#039;s early on a Saturday morning, hardly commuting conditions. An old woman in a pretty conservative looking car, not a hot-headed Hummer, started blowing her horn at me because I was in the way! When I turned to look, she motioned me to move out of the way. She clearly saw me as something that shouldn&#039;t be in the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with jdub, I was thinking the same thing when I Iooked at the concept for Masonic. I live in that neighborhood, it can be scary walking along Masonic as a pedestrian but as a cyclist, it&#8217;s far worse. I started taking Central going North bound between Hayes and Turk to avoid Masonic. </p>
<p>I will ride South bound on Masonic from Geary to the Panhandle or at least Hayes. It seems a lot easier to deal with but for some reason, the Northbound traffic is faster and more aggressive especially on weekdays but even weekends are scary.</p>
<p>To illustrate, I was once riding to Trader Joe&#8217;s early on a Saturday morning, hardly commuting conditions. An old woman in a pretty conservative looking car, not a hot-headed Hummer, started blowing her horn at me because I was in the way! When I turned to look, she motioned me to move out of the way. She clearly saw me as something that shouldn&#8217;t be in the road.</p>
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		<title>By: jdub</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4146</link>
		<dc:creator>jdub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4146</guid>
		<description>With respect to the diagram showing the Masonic plan, how about reversing the bike lane and the car parking lane, effectively creating a protected bike lane as on 9th Ave in NYC?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect to the diagram showing the Masonic plan, how about reversing the bike lane and the car parking lane, effectively creating a protected bike lane as on 9th Ave in NYC?</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4144</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4144</guid>
		<description>Get the cops to enforce the CVC against rogue motorists and you&#039;ll have safer streets than were all bike lane projects implemented tomorrow.

Again, there has been five years to do this kind of organizing work in preparation for the lifting of the EIR, but showing up after a tragedy of one&#039;s own making and demanding, like a spoiled child, that the world of streetscape revolve around cyclists and cyclists alone is what is really depressing.

What again is the onerous cost of striping bike lanes for 18 months and then improving the streetscape?

Politics is all about allocating scarce resources.  MTA&#039;s capacity is a scarce resource.  It is not politically feasible for groups to come in and when faced with a political choice, to say &quot;I want it all and I want it now.&quot;

Again, advocates had five years to plan for scenarios for after the lifting of the EIR with scant little to show for it.

-marc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get the cops to enforce the CVC against rogue motorists and you&#8217;ll have safer streets than were all bike lane projects implemented tomorrow.</p>
<p>Again, there has been five years to do this kind of organizing work in preparation for the lifting of the EIR, but showing up after a tragedy of one&#8217;s own making and demanding, like a spoiled child, that the world of streetscape revolve around cyclists and cyclists alone is what is really depressing.</p>
<p>What again is the onerous cost of striping bike lanes for 18 months and then improving the streetscape?</p>
<p>Politics is all about allocating scarce resources.  MTA&#8217;s capacity is a scarce resource.  It is not politically feasible for groups to come in and when faced with a political choice, to say &#8220;I want it all and I want it now.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, advocates had five years to plan for scenarios for after the lifting of the EIR with scant little to show for it.</p>
<p>-marc</p>
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		<title>By: CBrinkman</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/16/mta-mulls-scenarios-for-moving-bike-plan-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-4143</link>
		<dc:creator>CBrinkman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1716#comment-4143</guid>
		<description>Depressing.  And, when they do implement some of the bike lanes and improvements will it be enough to entice more cyclists out? Or will they just be the same old same old - designed for brave people and not us timid cyclists.  I&#039;m sick of people complaining about scofflaw cyclists when we&#039;ve only designed our streets for said scofflaws.  Want more civilized cyclists?  Design for women and kids and older cyclists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depressing.  And, when they do implement some of the bike lanes and improvements will it be enough to entice more cyclists out? Or will they just be the same old same old &#8211; designed for brave people and not us timid cyclists.  I&#8217;m sick of people complaining about scofflaw cyclists when we&#8217;ve only designed our streets for said scofflaws.  Want more civilized cyclists?  Design for women and kids and older cyclists.</p>
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