<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: San Francisco Shovel Ready for Freeway Project Through a Park</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/</link>
	<description>Covering San Francisco&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:38:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: karl</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-501720</link>
		<dc:creator>karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 05:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-501720</guid>
		<description>Rebuild the Embarcadero Fwy, as it was planned! Bring SF into the 20th century!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebuild the Embarcadero Fwy, as it was planned! Bring SF into the 20th century!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jerry</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4583</link>
		<dc:creator>jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4583</guid>
		<description>A roadway can be seismically upgraded and made safe without bulging to over twice its current size.  A narrower roadway, absent the useless &quot;tunnel&quot; in front of the military cemetery and landscpaped no-man&#039;s land between the lanes would be both cheaper to build and less intrusive on the Presidio of San Francisco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A roadway can be seismically upgraded and made safe without bulging to over twice its current size.  A narrower roadway, absent the useless &#8220;tunnel&#8221; in front of the military cemetery and landscpaped no-man&#8217;s land between the lanes would be both cheaper to build and less intrusive on the Presidio of San Francisco.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4481</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4481</guid>
		<description>We should start organizing against this monstrosity, even at this late hour. It should be taken down and never rebuilt. Simple. Safe. Effective. Inexpensive. Good for the environment. Good for the city. Good for the park. Good for the planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We should start organizing against this monstrosity, even at this late hour. It should be taken down and never rebuilt. Simple. Safe. Effective. Inexpensive. Good for the environment. Good for the city. Good for the park. Good for the planet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Murphy</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4479</link>
		<dc:creator>John Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4479</guid>
		<description>I shut my eyes very tightly coming down that thing in a GG Transit MCI bus. I can&#039;t believe there aren&#039;t many many accidents there. Testament to the drivers I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shut my eyes very tightly coming down that thing in a GG Transit MCI bus. I can&#8217;t believe there aren&#8217;t many many accidents there. Testament to the drivers I guess.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4472</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4472</guid>
		<description>If the purpose of the wider lanes is to be for improved bus transit, I assume these lanes will be bus only, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the purpose of the wider lanes is to be for improved bus transit, I assume these lanes will be bus only, right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Baker</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4468</link>
		<dc:creator>David Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4468</guid>
		<description>This is a necessary project and a done deal, but it would be improved with some tweaking, particularly on the storm water runoff issue.  Given the fact that we have the money, and Caltrans will at this point put it&#039;s (his?) head down and plow forward with eyes tightly shut, it will be a challenge to get any changes at all. But it doesn&#039;t hurt to ask!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a necessary project and a done deal, but it would be improved with some tweaking, particularly on the storm water runoff issue.  Given the fact that we have the money, and Caltrans will at this point put it&#8217;s (his?) head down and plow forward with eyes tightly shut, it will be a challenge to get any changes at all. But it doesn&#8217;t hurt to ask!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Schtu</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4467</link>
		<dc:creator>Schtu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4467</guid>
		<description>Thank you for a voice of reason Seth. This project is not a &quot;new freeway through a park&quot; it mitigates the impact of the existing freeway going through the park. It provides wider lanes so buses can travel at speed with more than 6 inches of clearance on each side. 

The current structure IS unsafe. It is not possible to &quot;bring the current structure up to modern standards.&quot; It is possible to retrofit to buy some time but it is not possible to economically retrofit the current structure to meet the post Northridge seismic standards.

Most importantly, it reconnects the Presidio with the Bay by sinking Doyle Drive underground. This is a good project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for a voice of reason Seth. This project is not a &#8220;new freeway through a park&#8221; it mitigates the impact of the existing freeway going through the park. It provides wider lanes so buses can travel at speed with more than 6 inches of clearance on each side. </p>
<p>The current structure IS unsafe. It is not possible to &#8220;bring the current structure up to modern standards.&#8221; It is possible to retrofit to buy some time but it is not possible to economically retrofit the current structure to meet the post Northridge seismic standards.</p>
<p>Most importantly, it reconnects the Presidio with the Bay by sinking Doyle Drive underground. This is a good project.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Norm Rolfe</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4464</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm Rolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4464</guid>
		<description>Let me try to rebut the myths about Doyle Drive with a few facts.

It&#039;s dangerous:

The last fatal accident on Doyle Drive was in 2003.  Freeways built to the standards the Presidio Freeway will be built to have many fatal accidents every year. 

It is structurally unsafe:

A San Francisco County Transportation Authority staff member stated at a public meeting that it is not about to fall down.  The complete Southern Approach to the Golden Gate Bridge (Doyle Drive)consists of three viaducts.  One is owned by the Golden Gate Bridge District and the other two are owned by Caltrans.  The Bridge District has strengthened its viaduct and brought it up to modern standards.  Caltrans has done some seismic bracing on its viaducts so they won&#039;t fall down in the next earthquake.  Somebody or something is stopping them from doing a complete job like the Bridge District did on its viaduct.  As to that 2 out of 100, very little of it has to do with structural strength.  Most of it it how closely it adheres to arbitrary design standards.

It is old; it has reached the end of its useful life:

It is the same age as the Golden Gate Bridge.  Is someone going to propose that the bridge be torn down and replaced with something wider?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me try to rebut the myths about Doyle Drive with a few facts.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s dangerous:</p>
<p>The last fatal accident on Doyle Drive was in 2003.  Freeways built to the standards the Presidio Freeway will be built to have many fatal accidents every year. </p>
<p>It is structurally unsafe:</p>
<p>A San Francisco County Transportation Authority staff member stated at a public meeting that it is not about to fall down.  The complete Southern Approach to the Golden Gate Bridge (Doyle Drive)consists of three viaducts.  One is owned by the Golden Gate Bridge District and the other two are owned by Caltrans.  The Bridge District has strengthened its viaduct and brought it up to modern standards.  Caltrans has done some seismic bracing on its viaducts so they won&#8217;t fall down in the next earthquake.  Somebody or something is stopping them from doing a complete job like the Bridge District did on its viaduct.  As to that 2 out of 100, very little of it has to do with structural strength.  Most of it it how closely it adheres to arbitrary design standards.</p>
<p>It is old; it has reached the end of its useful life:</p>
<p>It is the same age as the Golden Gate Bridge.  Is someone going to propose that the bridge be torn down and replaced with something wider?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4462</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 01:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4462</guid>
		<description>Not 12 lanes -- at its widest, seven 12-foot lanes, with two shoulders where there are none now.  In addition, a number of historical structures will be demolished to make way for the rebuild but space limitations precluded the inclusion of that information.

I don&#039;t know why the seventh lane has been included in the redesign, but a number of people I talked to told me that the shoulders are required by state law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not 12 lanes &#8212; at its widest, seven 12-foot lanes, with two shoulders where there are none now.  In addition, a number of historical structures will be demolished to make way for the rebuild but space limitations precluded the inclusion of that information.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why the seventh lane has been included in the redesign, but a number of people I talked to told me that the shoulders are required by state law.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alexei</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4461</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 01:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4461</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s going from 68 feet to 146 feet across, but it&#039;s &quot;not expansion or widening&quot;? That&#039;s loony. I&#039;m all for replacing and I like some aspects (tunnels) but the size of it is ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s going from 68 feet to 146 feet across, but it&#8217;s &#8220;not expansion or widening&#8221;? That&#8217;s loony. I&#8217;m all for replacing and I like some aspects (tunnels) but the size of it is ridiculous.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Seth A.</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4460</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 01:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4460</guid>
		<description>This article couldn&#039;t get beyond the progressive script and had to spin Doyle Drive as a pro-car project. Here are the ways in which Doyle Drive is progressive in ways:

-This is not a freeway expansion or widening: four lanes of travel in the peak direction. It now provides 4 lanes in the non-peak direction and allows Saturday and Sunday reverse-peak traffic to not spill over into the Marina. I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll appreciate it.
-Dumping all the GG bridge traffic onto at-grade boulevard through the Presidio(presumably the next best option)? That would be far worse! No matter how much you price Doyle Drive, traffic volumes will remain high. Marin users have a very low elasticity of demand for tolls. Grade separation is entirely appropriate and the tunnels will allow the Main Post to be connected seamlessly with the waterfront. How is that a bad thing?
-The proposed design improves views from places like the National Cemetery by lowering the grade of Doyle Drive.
- 12 ft. lanes help GG transit&#039;s reliability and operability on Doyle Drive.
- Even if the will of the people were behind it, there is no viable transit option to replace Doyle Drive besides GG bus service and ferries. BART or SMART will not go over the GG bridge and tunneling under the Bay is a pipe dream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article couldn&#8217;t get beyond the progressive script and had to spin Doyle Drive as a pro-car project. Here are the ways in which Doyle Drive is progressive in ways:</p>
<p>-This is not a freeway expansion or widening: four lanes of travel in the peak direction. It now provides 4 lanes in the non-peak direction and allows Saturday and Sunday reverse-peak traffic to not spill over into the Marina. I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll appreciate it.<br />
-Dumping all the GG bridge traffic onto at-grade boulevard through the Presidio(presumably the next best option)? That would be far worse! No matter how much you price Doyle Drive, traffic volumes will remain high. Marin users have a very low elasticity of demand for tolls. Grade separation is entirely appropriate and the tunnels will allow the Main Post to be connected seamlessly with the waterfront. How is that a bad thing?<br />
-The proposed design improves views from places like the National Cemetery by lowering the grade of Doyle Drive.<br />
- 12 ft. lanes help GG transit&#8217;s reliability and operability on Doyle Drive.<br />
- Even if the will of the people were behind it, there is no viable transit option to replace Doyle Drive besides GG bus service and ferries. BART or SMART will not go over the GG bridge and tunneling under the Bay is a pipe dream.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4458</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4458</guid>
		<description>I agree it Moser.... bizzare that a bike plan can get held up in court over questions of its environmental impact, but building a 12 lane speedway through a park is good to go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree it Moser&#8230;. bizzare that a bike plan can get held up in court over questions of its environmental impact, but building a 12 lane speedway through a park is good to go?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4457</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4457</guid>
		<description>I believe you John--even here there are many would disagree with such an idea, at least at some level.  In some moods even I would disagree with it.  

In all seriousness though (this comment goes beyond your true point JM, now I&#039;m digressing), what I&#039;m suggesting with my seemingly absurd point is not so much anti-car zealotry, but rather an argument for equity and the real possibility of mode choice.  Even if we were to have radical and revolutionary changes in transportation policy, built-space, etc. in the bay area as a whole (let&#039;s say) there would still need to be at least two lanes of automotive (truck, bus) roadways where Doyle Drive currently is.  Instead of six lanes dedicated to machines that are increasingly impractical to make and environmentally harmful though, some of the space would be reapportioned to rail, etc.  We have to denaturalize the notion of the automobile (just because there are still times now when &#039;it is ok,&#039; it &#039;is best to use a car&#039; instead of a more sustainable mode, in the future this need not be the case).  And not only that, that such a difference is possible, but also that it can be comfortable.  I think seemingly hyperbolic ideas such as the one above in my first comment are important for bringing that future into being.  ((the same snags and difficulties of parsing CM&#039;s effectiveness/ineffectiveness apply to this claim for hyperbole)).

In the meantime, Obama is going to offer us tax incentives to buy new cars this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe you John&#8211;even here there are many would disagree with such an idea, at least at some level.  In some moods even I would disagree with it.  </p>
<p>In all seriousness though (this comment goes beyond your true point JM, now I&#8217;m digressing), what I&#8217;m suggesting with my seemingly absurd point is not so much anti-car zealotry, but rather an argument for equity and the real possibility of mode choice.  Even if we were to have radical and revolutionary changes in transportation policy, built-space, etc. in the bay area as a whole (let&#8217;s say) there would still need to be at least two lanes of automotive (truck, bus) roadways where Doyle Drive currently is.  Instead of six lanes dedicated to machines that are increasingly impractical to make and environmentally harmful though, some of the space would be reapportioned to rail, etc.  We have to denaturalize the notion of the automobile (just because there are still times now when &#8216;it is ok,&#8217; it &#8216;is best to use a car&#8217; instead of a more sustainable mode, in the future this need not be the case).  And not only that, that such a difference is possible, but also that it can be comfortable.  I think seemingly hyperbolic ideas such as the one above in my first comment are important for bringing that future into being.  ((the same snags and difficulties of parsing CM&#8217;s effectiveness/ineffectiveness apply to this claim for hyperbole)).</p>
<p>In the meantime, Obama is going to offer us tax incentives to buy new cars this year.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Murphy</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4453</link>
		<dc:creator>John Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4453</guid>
		<description>Justin - here, that&#039;s amusing. Try posting that on another progressive board that is not the anti-car zealots and see how you do (I tried a &quot;why bail out GM&quot; on DailyKos - and was run off with a pitchfork).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin &#8211; here, that&#8217;s amusing. Try posting that on another progressive board that is not the anti-car zealots and see how you do (I tried a &#8220;why bail out GM&#8221; on DailyKos &#8211; and was run off with a pitchfork).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Moser</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4446</link>
		<dc:creator>Moser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4446</guid>
		<description>So SF can generate a lawsuit against the bike plan but not against this thing?  Hold it up in court and it won&#039;t meet anyone&#039;s stimulus criteria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So SF can generate a lawsuit against the bike plan but not against this thing?  Hold it up in court and it won&#8217;t meet anyone&#8217;s stimulus criteria.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4444</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4444</guid>
		<description>Better yet, do a controlled demolition of it so no one gets hurt -- and the freeway stops when the bridge lands in the Presidio.  This would enable a number of ways to create a controlled reduction (or rather choking off) of traffic into the city.  Marin will reconsider its choice to forego BART access to the city, etc. etc.  Why not?  We don&#039;t have the money for Doyle Drive right now--it can and should fail.  Why bail it out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better yet, do a controlled demolition of it so no one gets hurt &#8212; and the freeway stops when the bridge lands in the Presidio.  This would enable a number of ways to create a controlled reduction (or rather choking off) of traffic into the city.  Marin will reconsider its choice to forego BART access to the city, etc. etc.  Why not?  We don&#8217;t have the money for Doyle Drive right now&#8211;it can and should fail.  Why bail it out?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/03/30/san-francisco-shovel-ready-for-freeway-project-through-a-park/comment-page-1/#comment-4443</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=1822#comment-4443</guid>
		<description>I think these are concerns that should be brought up just to make sure the replacement of Doyle Drive is successful. However, we&#039;ve been talking this issue to death for years now, and in the meantime, Doyle Drive is close to collapse (get one more quake stronger than today&#039;s and it&#039;s gone!)

Maybe it needs to collapse completely before people stop playing hot potato with it and fix it in such a way that serves the public well with as little destructiveness as possible. Then at least the politicians could stop the ribbon cutting and duck as people throw Doyle Drive debris at them for screwing this up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think these are concerns that should be brought up just to make sure the replacement of Doyle Drive is successful. However, we&#8217;ve been talking this issue to death for years now, and in the meantime, Doyle Drive is close to collapse (get one more quake stronger than today&#8217;s and it&#8217;s gone!)</p>
<p>Maybe it needs to collapse completely before people stop playing hot potato with it and fix it in such a way that serves the public well with as little destructiveness as possible. Then at least the politicians could stop the ribbon cutting and duck as people throw Doyle Drive debris at them for screwing this up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

