Dear 1970s transit plaza designers,

You were wrong. Nobody wants to sit in a concrete pit, and people even hate walking around them.

That said, I hear things that indicate somebody is working on that (did somebody say design competition?) Might make a good followup SB article. Perhaps when that redesign happens, it will be time to make the 17th street plaza permanent, and the two can reinforce each other.

I agree that there are parts of the city that need this more (I think Treat @16th, and BurritoJustice blog thinks Valencia at Mission), but I don’t begrudge the Castro residents and visitors this plaza, since it seems easy to do and might encourage the city to do more.

Once upon a time in the 1990s, Muni was refurbishing the Upper Market subway tracks (were they installing Alcatel ATC?) and for a few months, all metro trains/cars emerged behind the Safeway, travelled down Church to 17th and into the tunnel.

Manhattan is very flat and has a redundant flat street grid. Taking space from the peripheral avenues is not difficult. One of the few places that are similar in SF is SOMA. Let’s see how the MTA handles the redesign of Folsom and Howard and budgets their 82.5′ ROW. In SF, there are rarely more than one good way to get from point A to point B.

-marc

Sadly, Harvey Milk Plaza is a dark, cold, dreary place that one rushes through to get to the Castro Muni station (without being panhandled or accosted, if one is lucky.) As a nearby resident, I welcome the 17th street plaza. The traffic calming alone that it will provide is enough to justify it. And if a hundred days a year it is warm enough to sit there and enjoy “the human parade that passes by”(nice line),even better.

@marc – I think you make a valid point about how our climate differs from NYC but I also think that outdoor spaces can accommodate different functions and still be successful. Perhaps the 17th street plaza won’t be welcoming to sit at all the time but merely providing an opportunity for people to cross the street without dodging traffic, to continue their conversations without interruption, I think have a greatly positive effect on the area.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Harvey Milk Plaza will ever have the critical dimensions necessary to be a true plaza.

17th and Market is probably closer to more parks and open space than any intersection in the City. Not to argue that it should not be built.

Today is a windy day. That spot is often quite windy because it is at the base of several hills. Even waiting at the Muni stop for an F can get chilly. NYC has different humidity and wind patterns that make such parks usable for 3 seasons out of the year. San Francisco’s wind and humidity patterns are much less forgiving, especially in the winter months when the buildings to the south offer up permanent shade.

Imagine average San Francisco winds whipped up to dangerous levels for cycling like today due to the added heights along Market Streets put forth as TOD. One reason why there isn’t much “stoop” life in SF has to do with wind and cold patterns.

-marc