<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Another Bicyclist Injured at Market/Octavia; Driver Not Cited</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/</link>
	<description>Covering San Francisco&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:16:44 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jerry Berbiar</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-2/#comment-21941</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Berbiar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 05:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-21941</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s insane that tens of thousands of cars a day are diverted 1/2 mile both entering and exiting the freeway from Octavia Blvd. How much does that contribute to wasting gas &amp; global warming. 
Bicyclists couldn&#039;t compromise and move a bike lane one block West on Market St., then use Valencia St.&#039;s well marked bike lanes. No other city would permit such idiocy.
 Now we have an occasional understandably frustrated driver making a bad decision to illegally enter the freeway from Market and added danger to cyclists.
 Why not just compromise &amp; move the damn bike lane? I respect bicyclists and am extremely careful on the road and when I&#039;m opening my car door. Why can&#039;t bicyclists have the same respect for motorists?-Jerry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's insane that tens of thousands of cars a day are diverted 1/2 mile both entering and exiting the freeway from Octavia Blvd. How much does that contribute to wasting gas &amp; global warming.<br />
Bicyclists couldn't compromise and move a bike lane one block West on Market St., then use Valencia St.'s well marked bike lanes. No other city would permit such idiocy.<br />
 Now we have an occasional understandably frustrated driver making a bad decision to illegally enter the freeway from Market and added danger to cyclists.<br />
 Why not just compromise &amp; move the damn bike lane? I respect bicyclists and am extremely careful on the road and when I'm opening my car door. Why can't bicyclists have the same respect for motorists?-Jerry</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5211</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 01:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5211</guid>
		<description>Rob, the Governor&#039;s office and legislature are working to replace LOS with an ATG-like metric, and that gives localities legal cover.  

CEQA offers flexibility to localities, and once the City adopts a new standard, there is a high bar on the part of plaintiffs to challenge it if the City puts forth substantial evidence that it captures environmental impacts and does not conceal anything.  

Delaying transit is defined as an impact by state law, it is not necessarily part of LOS analysis per se.  

Delaying autos is a social impact.

The clock is ticking on your relevance, Rob.

-marc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, the Governor's office and legislature are working to replace LOS with an ATG-like metric, and that gives localities legal cover.  </p>
<p>CEQA offers flexibility to localities, and once the City adopts a new standard, there is a high bar on the part of plaintiffs to challenge it if the City puts forth substantial evidence that it captures environmental impacts and does not conceal anything.  </p>
<p>Delaying transit is defined as an impact by state law, it is not necessarily part of LOS analysis per se.  </p>
<p>Delaying autos is a social impact.</p>
<p>The clock is ticking on your relevance, Rob.</p>
<p>-marc</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Anderson</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5210</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 23:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5210</guid>
		<description>Still waiting to hear why the city doesn&#039;t change the traffic signals at the M/O intersection like it did at Fell/Masonic to allow the right turn on the freeway while cyclists and motorists don&#039;t share a green light. Recall that at Fell/Masonic motorists can only make the left turn onto Masonic on the new green light,which they don&#039;t share with cyclists and pedestrians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still waiting to hear why the city doesn't change the traffic signals at the M/O intersection like it did at Fell/Masonic to allow the right turn on the freeway while cyclists and motorists don't share a green light. Recall that at Fell/Masonic motorists can only make the left turn onto Masonic on the new green light,which they don't share with cyclists and pedestrians.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Anderson</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5209</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 22:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5209</guid>
		<description>Greasy bear of course doesn&#039;t know what he&#039;s talking about. The Market/Octavia intersection isn&#039;t even in the original Bicycle Plan that was the subject of the litigation. The city&#039;s latest plan to redesign that intersection was rightly rejected by Judge Busch, who wants to get out of any involvement in managing the city&#039;s traffic. Even the SFBC rejected the city&#039;s proposal for that intersection, which would have forced cyclists and motorists into the same lane.

Typical know-it-all screed from Marc. I just don&#039;t believe you bike people can dump LOS---which measures the amount of time traffic takes to get through intersections---without something plausible to measure traffic to take its place. And &quot;trips generation&quot; is unlikely to fill that bill. CEQA is a state law, and you can&#039;t simply dump the only serious way to measure the impact projects will have on traffic just because bikes don&#039;t burn fossil fuel.

The notion that installing bike lanes on busy streets by taking away street parking and traffic lanes is environmentally neutral is ridiculous, since that can easily make traffic a lot worse for everyone, including Muni passengers.

Marc talks about how the city was warned through the CAC process about proceeding without dealing with CEQA, but I didn&#039;t learn about that dissent until long after the litigation was underway and we say evidence of it when we assembled the administrative record with documents that told us about it. Why didn&#039;t he and Greg Hayes publicize their dissent? This was always one of the big problems with the Bicycle Plan process: even many progressives had no idea what was going on as the Plan was pushed through the process without proper review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greasy bear of course doesn't know what he's talking about. The Market/Octavia intersection isn't even in the original Bicycle Plan that was the subject of the litigation. The city's latest plan to redesign that intersection was rightly rejected by Judge Busch, who wants to get out of any involvement in managing the city's traffic. Even the SFBC rejected the city's proposal for that intersection, which would have forced cyclists and motorists into the same lane.</p>
<p>Typical know-it-all screed from Marc. I just don't believe you bike people can dump LOS---which measures the amount of time traffic takes to get through intersections---without something plausible to measure traffic to take its place. And "trips generation" is unlikely to fill that bill. CEQA is a state law, and you can't simply dump the only serious way to measure the impact projects will have on traffic just because bikes don't burn fossil fuel.</p>
<p>The notion that installing bike lanes on busy streets by taking away street parking and traffic lanes is environmentally neutral is ridiculous, since that can easily make traffic a lot worse for everyone, including Muni passengers.</p>
<p>Marc talks about how the city was warned through the CAC process about proceeding without dealing with CEQA, but I didn't learn about that dissent until long after the litigation was underway and we say evidence of it when we assembled the administrative record with documents that told us about it. Why didn't he and Greg Hayes publicize their dissent? This was always one of the big problems with the Bicycle Plan process: even many progressives had no idea what was going on as the Plan was pushed through the process without proper review.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5206</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5206</guid>
		<description>Anderson would not have had a leg to stand on had the City followed the law.

Any citizen has the right to go to court to compel compliance by government with the law when the executive runs amok.  The courts must be made available to check excesses of the executive and legislature.  Simply because government did not follow the law and your, our, project got delayed has no bearing on whether or not executive should be mandated to follow the law by the courts.

It is incumbent upon the City to act prudently and follow the law.  They were warned about CEQA implications by many of us on the Bicycle Advisory Committee back in 2002 when this plan was originating.  The BAC was dissolved in part, because the Powers That Be, The City Attorney, The MTA Bicycle Program, The Planning Department office of Major Environmental Analysis and the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition, did not want to hear of LOS or CEQA because they were convinced of the righteousness of their mission if not CEQA.

Between the Bicycle Coalition and the BAC Chair Emily Drennan, the decision was made to silence any discussion of LOS reform and a dangerous conditions inspection system.  One major regret of mine is signing onto the letter requesting dissolution of the BAC, that was a big mistake.  We were right, they were wrong and they still don&#039;t realize how wrong they have been and the cumulative implications of that error.  Cycling in San Francisco will suffer over the long term unless those responsible learn the lessons of their failure and are made to own their outcomes.

The City could have taken several steps between 2002 and 2004 to change the rules locally so that the Bicycle Plan would have been exempted from CEQA review.  They could have changed section 31 of the San Francisco Administrative Code to provide the local equivalent of a statutory or categorical exemption.  They could have directed the Planning Commission to direct the MEA to change their local guidelines and standards to functionally exempt removing auto lanes for bicycle or transit lanes from environmental review.  But the City Attorney is so conservative that, unless your issue is same sex marriage, caution is never thrown to the legal wind.

It wasn&#039;t until 2005 when Gonzalez was gone and Mirkarimi came in that we wrote the resolution urging the Planning Commission to change the standards and that sat idle for a whole year.  Even still, the Transportation Authority is just finalizing the ATG standard which we can expect to be stuck in litigation for years on end.  I believe the injunction came down in the middle of budget adoption in 2006, and I urged supervisors to find $1m in the  budget to dedicate to jump starting an EIR, but that did not happen and the EIR did not get started until, what, mid 2007?

But with full knowledge of the CEQA implications with the LOS standard in place, the route which was chosen was the General Rule Exclusion which has a very low bar to challenge in court and was successfully.

Whenever anyone whines that it is insane that bicycle lanes should be delayed because of environmental impacts when bicycles are pro-environment, we need to just laugh at them, in public, point at them too, to humiliate such purveyors of disingenuous snake oil.  CEQA is what it is, and group think is not going to change that, raising and deploying political power to change the law or to marshall resources to quickly comply with it will.

This was a self-inflicted wound, and in reality the blood is on the hands of those who would posit themselves as leaders of San Francisco cyclists.

The Octavia boulevard plan likewise arose from the liberal/progressive and enviro nonprofit coalition.  That the North Mission and SOMA got slated for a fresh freeway is bad enough, but the planning and engineering of a touch down at Market Street obviously failed to consider the problem adequately.  Another self-inflicted running sore.

Now, we&#039;ve got five years until CalTrans wants to replace the upper deck of the US 101 stub from I-80.  Where is the organization arising to compel removal of the freeway back to those parking lots at Potrero and Division?

-marc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anderson would not have had a leg to stand on had the City followed the law.</p>
<p>Any citizen has the right to go to court to compel compliance by government with the law when the executive runs amok.  The courts must be made available to check excesses of the executive and legislature.  Simply because government did not follow the law and your, our, project got delayed has no bearing on whether or not executive should be mandated to follow the law by the courts.</p>
<p>It is incumbent upon the City to act prudently and follow the law.  They were warned about CEQA implications by many of us on the Bicycle Advisory Committee back in 2002 when this plan was originating.  The BAC was dissolved in part, because the Powers That Be, The City Attorney, The MTA Bicycle Program, The Planning Department office of Major Environmental Analysis and the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition, did not want to hear of LOS or CEQA because they were convinced of the righteousness of their mission if not CEQA.</p>
<p>Between the Bicycle Coalition and the BAC Chair Emily Drennan, the decision was made to silence any discussion of LOS reform and a dangerous conditions inspection system.  One major regret of mine is signing onto the letter requesting dissolution of the BAC, that was a big mistake.  We were right, they were wrong and they still don't realize how wrong they have been and the cumulative implications of that error.  Cycling in San Francisco will suffer over the long term unless those responsible learn the lessons of their failure and are made to own their outcomes.</p>
<p>The City could have taken several steps between 2002 and 2004 to change the rules locally so that the Bicycle Plan would have been exempted from CEQA review.  They could have changed section 31 of the San Francisco Administrative Code to provide the local equivalent of a statutory or categorical exemption.  They could have directed the Planning Commission to direct the MEA to change their local guidelines and standards to functionally exempt removing auto lanes for bicycle or transit lanes from environmental review.  But the City Attorney is so conservative that, unless your issue is same sex marriage, caution is never thrown to the legal wind.</p>
<p>It wasn't until 2005 when Gonzalez was gone and Mirkarimi came in that we wrote the resolution urging the Planning Commission to change the standards and that sat idle for a whole year.  Even still, the Transportation Authority is just finalizing the ATG standard which we can expect to be stuck in litigation for years on end.  I believe the injunction came down in the middle of budget adoption in 2006, and I urged supervisors to find $1m in the  budget to dedicate to jump starting an EIR, but that did not happen and the EIR did not get started until, what, mid 2007?</p>
<p>But with full knowledge of the CEQA implications with the LOS standard in place, the route which was chosen was the General Rule Exclusion which has a very low bar to challenge in court and was successfully.</p>
<p>Whenever anyone whines that it is insane that bicycle lanes should be delayed because of environmental impacts when bicycles are pro-environment, we need to just laugh at them, in public, point at them too, to humiliate such purveyors of disingenuous snake oil.  CEQA is what it is, and group think is not going to change that, raising and deploying political power to change the law or to marshall resources to quickly comply with it will.</p>
<p>This was a self-inflicted wound, and in reality the blood is on the hands of those who would posit themselves as leaders of San Francisco cyclists.</p>
<p>The Octavia boulevard plan likewise arose from the liberal/progressive and enviro nonprofit coalition.  That the North Mission and SOMA got slated for a fresh freeway is bad enough, but the planning and engineering of a touch down at Market Street obviously failed to consider the problem adequately.  Another self-inflicted running sore.</p>
<p>Now, we've got five years until CalTrans wants to replace the upper deck of the US 101 stub from I-80.  Where is the organization arising to compel removal of the freeway back to those parking lots at Potrero and Division?</p>
<p>-marc</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: the greasy bear</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5204</link>
		<dc:creator>the greasy bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 20:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5204</guid>
		<description>Answer: because your personal and deliberate anti-cycling activism has rendered critical improvements in SF cycling safety, like overhauling bloody Market and Octavia, illegal for three years and counting. 

You, Rob Anderson, are responsible for San Francisco&#039;s inability to legally meet cyclists&#039; most pressing and obvious safety needs--nobody else pushed for an injunction that outlaws peaceful change during the cycling revolution. Only you did. You. The resulting injuries and deaths at well-known problem spots are your fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answer: because your personal and deliberate anti-cycling activism has rendered critical improvements in SF cycling safety, like overhauling bloody Market and Octavia, illegal for three years and counting. </p>
<p>You, Rob Anderson, are responsible for San Francisco's inability to legally meet cyclists' most pressing and obvious safety needs--nobody else pushed for an injunction that outlaws peaceful change during the cycling revolution. Only you did. You. The resulting injuries and deaths at well-known problem spots are your fault.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Anderson</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5199</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 16:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5199</guid>
		<description>&quot;And Rob Anderson&#039;s blood-stained hands just got a little more crimson.&quot;

Say what? My question is, Why are cyclists and motorists sharing a green light at this intersection? Why not do what the city&#039;s did at Fell and Masonic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"And Rob Anderson's blood-stained hands just got a little more crimson."</p>
<p>Say what? My question is, Why are cyclists and motorists sharing a green light at this intersection? Why not do what the city's did at Fell and Masonic?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: whir</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5140</link>
		<dc:creator>whir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5140</guid>
		<description>@Richard - maybe you haven&#039;t spammed enough forums yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard - maybe you haven't spammed enough forums yet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: earlapricot</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5089</link>
		<dc:creator>earlapricot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5089</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m no traffic engineer, but it seems to me that the only real solution to this problem is one I don&#039;t hear discussed much (with the occasional exception - I&#039;ve counted one on this thread so far): Remove the highway touchdown on Market and back 101 up *at least* to Van Ness, preferably all the way back to 80. It&#039;s very hard for me to take seriously any effort to eliminate lethal illegal right turns at this intersection which does not involve a permanent physical barrier on the southbound lane of 101 or removal of the touchdown altogether. I imagine the only reason we don&#039;t discuss this option is that we think it&#039;s too lofty a goal to try to get this idea through the political process, but don&#039;t we have the Embarcadero to tell us it&#039;s not?

To me, the concept of a highway touchdown in the middle of a densely populated urban area is preposterous and nonsensical no matter how many cameras are installed or policemen posted. Therefore all other solutions to this right-turn dilemma sound like stop-gaps until we can remove the actual problem: the highway. Though a better stop gap in my mind would be a giant cement barrier on the market/octavia highway entrance, or a moving barrier (like those found at RR crossings) which opens only when the southbound octavia light is green and market street traffic is stopped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm no traffic engineer, but it seems to me that the only real solution to this problem is one I don't hear discussed much (with the occasional exception - I've counted one on this thread so far): Remove the highway touchdown on Market and back 101 up *at least* to Van Ness, preferably all the way back to 80. It's very hard for me to take seriously any effort to eliminate lethal illegal right turns at this intersection which does not involve a permanent physical barrier on the southbound lane of 101 or removal of the touchdown altogether. I imagine the only reason we don't discuss this option is that we think it's too lofty a goal to try to get this idea through the political process, but don't we have the Embarcadero to tell us it's not?</p>
<p>To me, the concept of a highway touchdown in the middle of a densely populated urban area is preposterous and nonsensical no matter how many cameras are installed or policemen posted. Therefore all other solutions to this right-turn dilemma sound like stop-gaps until we can remove the actual problem: the highway. Though a better stop gap in my mind would be a giant cement barrier on the market/octavia highway entrance, or a moving barrier (like those found at RR crossings) which opens only when the southbound octavia light is green and market street traffic is stopped.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5085</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5085</guid>
		<description>I recently purchased directional turn signals for my bike and the 1st day I used them they saved my life at an intersection where a truck was making a right turn.
It&#039;s a no brainer. I purchased mine at www.safetybikesignals.com.
I just can&#039;t understand why more riders do not have these on their bike. Do You?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently purchased directional turn signals for my bike and the 1st day I used them they saved my life at an intersection where a truck was making a right turn.<br />
It's a no brainer. I purchased mine at <a href="http://www.safetybikesignals.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.safetybikesignals.com</a>.<br />
I just can't understand why more riders do not have these on their bike. Do You?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Banjo K</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5076</link>
		<dc:creator>Banjo K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5076</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, the Google Maps team is now aware of the problem and they are working on a fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it's worth, the Google Maps team is now aware of the problem and they are working on a fix.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FolderPete</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5073</link>
		<dc:creator>FolderPete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5073</guid>
		<description>GoogleMaps only gives that goofy direction for originations on Pearl or 1800-odd Market.  Otherwise, it tells you to take Duboce, Valencia, Octavia, South VN, etc.

Still, it does tell you to do something stupid and illegal.  They may want to know their Liability and Risk.


As for a &#039;shared-lane&#039; concept, I suppose we could always do an experiment.  For three years, we could have a shared lane (with or without a legal Right).  Then -- count up the casualties, and declare a &quot;winner&quot;.  (I only say this cuz I don&#039;t regularly use that intersection).


Why is there not more visual obstruction btw Market and the freeway on the eastbound side?  You know, maybe some really large pieces of plywood.  They could even paint on them &quot;Hyway 101, turn Right at the bottom of the hill.&quot;


I don&#039;t suppose a &#039;bike bridge&#039; over the intersection would work -- too steep on the downhill section from Octavia to Valencia I suppose.  Too bad the lane couldn&#039;t go UNDER the freeway from Elgin onto McCoppin and Valencia.  (Let the VCs take the lane on Market).
-FP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GoogleMaps only gives that goofy direction for originations on Pearl or 1800-odd Market.  Otherwise, it tells you to take Duboce, Valencia, Octavia, South VN, etc.</p>
<p>Still, it does tell you to do something stupid and illegal.  They may want to know their Liability and Risk.</p>
<p>As for a 'shared-lane' concept, I suppose we could always do an experiment.  For three years, we could have a shared lane (with or without a legal Right).  Then -- count up the casualties, and declare a "winner".  (I only say this cuz I don't regularly use that intersection).</p>
<p>Why is there not more visual obstruction btw Market and the freeway on the eastbound side?  You know, maybe some really large pieces of plywood.  They could even paint on them "Hyway 101, turn Right at the bottom of the hill."</p>
<p>I don't suppose a 'bike bridge' over the intersection would work -- too steep on the downhill section from Octavia to Valencia I suppose.  Too bad the lane couldn't go UNDER the freeway from Elgin onto McCoppin and Valencia.  (Let the VCs take the lane on Market).<br />
-FP</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5069</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5069</guid>
		<description>Josh: I thought that Google had fixed that, but I just checked and now they advise drivers to make a *U-turn* of all things at Market and Octavia, and then turn *left* off Market!  Ridiculous!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh: I thought that Google had fixed that, but I just checked and now they advise drivers to make a *U-turn* of all things at Market and Octavia, and then turn *left* off Market!  Ridiculous!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TPS</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5066</link>
		<dc:creator>TPS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5066</guid>
		<description>Allowing cars to turn right was such an ass-backwards idea for the above stated reasons that even Caltrans agreed to prohibit the turn.

The only way to effectively combat the reckless cheaters is through 24/7 enforcement.  Unless we want to put a cop there (on overtime), we need photo-enforcement.  

Tragically, the blood of those 18 accidents lies with State Senator Leland Yee.  How does he sleep at night?  Someone needs to reintroduce the bill and put these victims&#039; accounts in Yee&#039;s face.

As Jason says, the true solution is to remove the freeway back to Potrero.  The stub serves no purpose, only blight and hazard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allowing cars to turn right was such an ass-backwards idea for the above stated reasons that even Caltrans agreed to prohibit the turn.</p>
<p>The only way to effectively combat the reckless cheaters is through 24/7 enforcement.  Unless we want to put a cop there (on overtime), we need photo-enforcement.  </p>
<p>Tragically, the blood of those 18 accidents lies with State Senator Leland Yee.  How does he sleep at night?  Someone needs to reintroduce the bill and put these victims' accounts in Yee's face.</p>
<p>As Jason says, the true solution is to remove the freeway back to Potrero.  The stub serves no purpose, only blight and hazard.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5063</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5063</guid>
		<description>So MTA&#039;s first work order upon the lifting of the Injunction will be to remove a bike lane?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So MTA's first work order upon the lifting of the Injunction will be to remove a bike lane?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5062</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5062</guid>
		<description>People who turn there are likely in one of two categories: 1) newbies and 2) pricks.

If you haven&#039;t been in the city much, and get directions from Google Maps or your in-car GPS nav system, you are told to enter the freeway there.  If you get there and see that it&#039;s no turn, you might freak and say screw it, I&#039;m not getting lost in this city and make the illegal turn.

This could be fixed (well, &quot;made better&quot; at least) with signage pointing the way to the acceptable entrance of 101.

There&#039;s no accounting for pricks.  They&#039;ve always been here and always will.  A right-turn camera is the best solution; please write scathing emails to State Senator Leland Yee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who turn there are likely in one of two categories: 1) newbies and 2) pricks.</p>
<p>If you haven't been in the city much, and get directions from Google Maps or your in-car GPS nav system, you are told to enter the freeway there.  If you get there and see that it's no turn, you might freak and say screw it, I'm not getting lost in this city and make the illegal turn.</p>
<p>This could be fixed (well, "made better" at least) with signage pointing the way to the acceptable entrance of 101.</p>
<p>There's no accounting for pricks.  They've always been here and always will.  A right-turn camera is the best solution; please write scathing emails to State Senator Leland Yee.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: taomom</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5060</link>
		<dc:creator>taomom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5060</guid>
		<description>A solution to this problem is definitely not to give up bike lanes and make bikes compete with cars for space on the road.  I can&#039;t go as fast as prevailing traffic (I generally bike 12 - 15 mph) and this can make some car drivers pull stupid, risky maneuvers to try to get around me.  The answer is better bicycle infrastructure, not less.  (Think Copenhagen.)  Physically separated bike lanes wherever possible.  When we&#039;ve gotten to the point where bicycling is safe for people from ages 8 to 80, then we will have achieved what we need.  

There are larger questions that are important here.  Why was this car driver even getting on the freeway?  Why was BART or Caltrain not the better choice?  Why did she have to go so far that she even needed a freeway--why wasn&#039;t her job or her activity closer by?  The answers are obvious--public transport isn&#039;t convenient enough, gas is too cheap, we don&#039;t do enough to encourage people to live near where they work.  But these are the fundamental issues that are deeper and more troubling, and if we don&#039;t solve them we are going to have a terrible time adapting to peak oil and preventing global warming.

As to making this intersection safer, a camera that catches the license plate of anyone making a right turn and a follow-up $1000 fine should do the trick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A solution to this problem is definitely not to give up bike lanes and make bikes compete with cars for space on the road.  I can't go as fast as prevailing traffic (I generally bike 12 - 15 mph) and this can make some car drivers pull stupid, risky maneuvers to try to get around me.  The answer is better bicycle infrastructure, not less.  (Think Copenhagen.)  Physically separated bike lanes wherever possible.  When we've gotten to the point where bicycling is safe for people from ages 8 to 80, then we will have achieved what we need.  </p>
<p>There are larger questions that are important here.  Why was this car driver even getting on the freeway?  Why was BART or Caltrain not the better choice?  Why did she have to go so far that she even needed a freeway--why wasn't her job or her activity closer by?  The answers are obvious--public transport isn't convenient enough, gas is too cheap, we don't do enough to encourage people to live near where they work.  But these are the fundamental issues that are deeper and more troubling, and if we don't solve them we are going to have a terrible time adapting to peak oil and preventing global warming.</p>
<p>As to making this intersection safer, a camera that catches the license plate of anyone making a right turn and a follow-up $1000 fine should do the trick.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Banjo K</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5059</link>
		<dc:creator>Banjo K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 05:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5059</guid>
		<description>Love the idea of the right-turn violation camera.  I also agree that the current design really locks the bicyclist in with no escape route regardless of their speed (and I commute on my bike every day!)

But I&#039;m puzzled as to why MTA is still suggesting a shared lane.  Doesn&#039;t that imply that cars will be turning right?  They&#039;re not considering allowing right turns, are they?  And if not, I actually don&#039;t understand why a shared lane would be safer.

*sigh* confused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the idea of the right-turn violation camera.  I also agree that the current design really locks the bicyclist in with no escape route regardless of their speed (and I commute on my bike every day!)</p>
<p>But I'm puzzled as to why MTA is still suggesting a shared lane.  Doesn't that imply that cars will be turning right?  They're not considering allowing right turns, are they?  And if not, I actually don't understand why a shared lane would be safer.</p>
<p>*sigh* confused.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DaveO</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5058</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 04:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5058</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what should be done:

Have the Central Freeway touch down at Van Ness, much as it does at Octavia now.  Meanwhile, extend Fell and Oak to merge with Van Ness.  For the bicyclists, use the Muni station at Market/Van Ness  to  create some kind of underpass-type bike lane.

Long term, 101 should be tunnel under Van Ness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here's what should be done:</p>
<p>Have the Central Freeway touch down at Van Ness, much as it does at Octavia now.  Meanwhile, extend Fell and Oak to merge with Van Ness.  For the bicyclists, use the Muni station at Market/Van Ness  to  create some kind of underpass-type bike lane.</p>
<p>Long term, 101 should be tunnel under Van Ness.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tag</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/04/27/car-hits-bicyclist-in-crash-at-marketoctavia/comment-page-1/#comment-5056</link>
		<dc:creator>Tag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2041#comment-5056</guid>
		<description>Plainly late to this thread, but here goes. When they first started talking about doing away with the bike lane here, I was with most people in thinking that sounded like an entirely lousy idea. But on reflection, I feel increasingly skeptical of bike lanes as the panacea they are often treated as and more open to the idea that having a shared lane at this intersection would actually be better for all parties. 

Or, well, not ALL parties, because it seems like while bike lanes sometimes lend themselves to novel hazards, such as this one, they DO reduce the psychological barrier to entry that novice cyclists feel. While I generally feel more comfortable being a part of traffic, rather than separated from it, I can very much understand that other cyclists would not. 

What does anyone know about how well or not the stretch of Howard between 8th and 9th works? If you&#039;re unfamiliar with it, it works like this: the bike lane disappears and the right lane becomes a turn-only lane onto 9th. The second-from-the-right lane is a turn-okay lane and there are about a million sharrows painted onto it. I&#039;ve never seen anything go wrong here, myself, but I do find the dance to be a stressful one. I&#039;m sure drivers do, too, and that makes me also wonder if the gray-area here somehow makes the whole mess safer in the end. Any ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plainly late to this thread, but here goes. When they first started talking about doing away with the bike lane here, I was with most people in thinking that sounded like an entirely lousy idea. But on reflection, I feel increasingly skeptical of bike lanes as the panacea they are often treated as and more open to the idea that having a shared lane at this intersection would actually be better for all parties. </p>
<p>Or, well, not ALL parties, because it seems like while bike lanes sometimes lend themselves to novel hazards, such as this one, they DO reduce the psychological barrier to entry that novice cyclists feel. While I generally feel more comfortable being a part of traffic, rather than separated from it, I can very much understand that other cyclists would not. </p>
<p>What does anyone know about how well or not the stretch of Howard between 8th and 9th works? If you're unfamiliar with it, it works like this: the bike lane disappears and the right lane becomes a turn-only lane onto 9th. The second-from-the-right lane is a turn-okay lane and there are about a million sharrows painted onto it. I've never seen anything go wrong here, myself, but I do find the dance to be a stressful one. I'm sure drivers do, too, and that makes me also wonder if the gray-area here somehow makes the whole mess safer in the end. Any ideas?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
