Comments on: Only 17 Percent Drive to Downtown SF to Shop, Study Finds http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/ Covering San Francisco's livable streets movement Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:16:44 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: SFHope http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5839 SFHope Fri, 29 May 2009 04:19:11 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5839 taomom, You daughter can always go to the Target at San Bruno/Tanforan. It's right outside the BART station there. taomom,

You daughter can always go to the Target at San Bruno/Tanforan. It's right outside the BART station there.

]]> By: Wai Yip Tung http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5822 Wai Yip Tung Thu, 28 May 2009 18:26:00 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5822 We need to persistently get this data out. You think the survey result speak for itself? But it is so contradictory to many people's perception that they will just dismiss it as an inconsequential study and held on to their own believe. We need to rebunk their believe again and again and again with easy to digest chart and number. I'm a live long transit rider. Frankly this is news even to me. We need to persistently get this data out. You think the survey result speak for itself? But it is so contradictory to many people's perception that they will just dismiss it as an inconsequential study and held on to their own believe. We need to rebunk their believe again and again and again with easy to digest chart and number. I'm a live long transit rider. Frankly this is news even to me.

]]> By: Pat http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5806 Pat Thu, 28 May 2009 00:31:56 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5806 It may be that 4 times per month was a rounded number in the description but not rounded in the equation. This still would not get 259 though so who knows. It may be that 4 times per month was a rounded number in the description but not rounded in the equation. This still would not get 259 though so who knows.

]]> By: John Murphy http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5800 John Murphy Wed, 27 May 2009 21:59:32 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5800 Maybe 93 dollars of that was spent on their car :) Maybe 93 dollars of that was spent on their car :)

]]> By: Dave http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5799 Dave Wed, 27 May 2009 21:17:38 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5799 can someone help me with the math? The quote says car drivers travelled an average of 4 times per month and spent $88 each time, so how does this add up to $259? (I get 4*88=$352) Is there some other component of the study it is not mentioning? can someone help me with the math?

The quote says car drivers travelled an average of 4 times per month and spent $88 each time, so how does this add up to $259? (I get 4*88=$352)

Is there some other component of the study it is not mentioning?

]]> By: Pat http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5797 Pat Wed, 27 May 2009 19:56:03 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5797 I know that it's anecdotal evidence and not data, but personally the low quality of transit service and overcrowded lines along Market and the high speeds of auto traffic going down the wide streets actually prevent me from going downtown on transit a lot. I don't see the results of this study as static. If design focus were taken off of car traffic in the area it would make the Westfield area less scary-as-fuck and far, far more transit and walking people would go far more frequently. Wide streets with high speeds just makes the area scary and ugly, and I would rather go to Haight to deal with the homeless people and their pitbulls than go downtown. I know that it's anecdotal evidence and not data, but personally the low quality of transit service and overcrowded lines along Market and the high speeds of auto traffic going down the wide streets actually prevent me from going downtown on transit a lot. I don't see the results of this study as static. If design focus were taken off of car traffic in the area it would make the Westfield area less scary-as-fuck and far, far more transit and walking people would go far more frequently. Wide streets with high speeds just makes the area scary and ugly, and I would rather go to Haight to deal with the homeless people and their pitbulls than go downtown.

]]> By: Jeremiah Schaub http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5794 Jeremiah Schaub Wed, 27 May 2009 18:45:00 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5794 Toronto did a study similar to this a few years back, but it was focused on a much smaller neighborhood. While I never drive to shop anywhere, some people definitely do. I think the study needs to branch outside of holiday shopping times, and to expand to more than 3 survey points. When the average price is $240 per person, you know something is wrong. Toronto did a study similar to this a few years back, but it was focused on a much smaller neighborhood. While I never drive to shop anywhere, some people definitely do. I think the study needs to branch outside of holiday shopping times, and to expand to more than 3 survey points. When the average price is $240 per person, you know something is wrong.

]]> By: taomom http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5793 taomom Wed, 27 May 2009 18:18:09 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5793 Wow, this is great news, but while I'm surprised, I'm not shocked. I confess to being a reluctant shopper. I find it unpleasant even in the best of circumstances and have never understood how it can be a form of recreation for some people. But when I can't get something in my neighborhood, for the past six months or so, I've been going downtown rather than to Stonestown or Colma. I used to drive to Stonestown (15 - 20 minutes) but I find I can access stores in the Powell/Market area via Muni in about 20 minutes as well. (Going home is slower because of the wait for a connecting bus.) I try never to drive to the Fifth and Mission Garage because it is a) expensive and b) so congested that the whole process of driving, parking and walking can take 25 - 40 minutes on a busy Saturday. In general I would rather ride my bike than take Muni--is there secure bike parking (lockers or visually supervised) in the Powell/Market area? I hear Stonestown Mall is losing stores and emptying out. My teenage daughter says I'm a bad mom because I won't take her to Target in Colma, but, luckily, she's old enough now she can take Muni to Westfield Mall on her own! Wow, this is great news, but while I'm surprised, I'm not shocked. I confess to being a reluctant shopper. I find it unpleasant even in the best of circumstances and have never understood how it can be a form of recreation for some people. But when I can't get something in my neighborhood, for the past six months or so, I've been going downtown rather than to Stonestown or Colma. I used to drive to Stonestown (15 - 20 minutes) but I find I can access stores in the Powell/Market area via Muni in about 20 minutes as well. (Going home is slower because of the wait for a connecting bus.) I try never to drive to the Fifth and Mission Garage because it is a) expensive and b) so congested that the whole process of driving, parking and walking can take 25 - 40 minutes on a busy Saturday. In general I would rather ride my bike than take Muni--is there secure bike parking (lockers or visually supervised) in the Powell/Market area?

I hear Stonestown Mall is losing stores and emptying out. My teenage daughter says I'm a bad mom because I won't take her to Target in Colma, but, luckily, she's old enough now she can take Muni to Westfield Mall on her own!

]]> By: CBrinkman http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5792 CBrinkman Wed, 27 May 2009 18:06:47 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5792 "Marketing Vice President Laura Milloy, wasn't convinced the study's results were significant and didn't indicate they would use the results to try to dispel any perception among their members that most shoppers drive." Wow, the Chamber is doing a disservice to their members. Don't let them know who thier customers really are - keep them in the dark and shovel nonsense about more parking. "Marketing Vice President Laura Milloy, wasn't convinced the study's results were significant and didn't indicate they would use the results to try to dispel any perception among their members that most shoppers drive."

Wow, the Chamber is doing a disservice to their members. Don't let them know who thier customers really are - keep them in the dark and shovel nonsense about more parking.

]]> By: mikesonn http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5791 mikesonn Wed, 27 May 2009 17:54:55 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5791 "Get those facts out of my face. We need more parking!" "Get those facts out of my face. We need more parking!"

]]> By: njudah http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5789 njudah Wed, 27 May 2009 17:35:19 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5789 Can we PLEASE reprint this report, and make sure every single elected official reads this? I've read for years that the #1 thing that drives shoppers to neighborhoods is walkability and a diversity of stores so people can get a lot done at once. A small city surrounded by water can't compete with Hillsdale Mall for parking - never has, never will. Ironically the Hillsdale Mall developer spent money to keep San Mateo County out of BART because he was so fearful shoppers would board BART to the City instead of driving to his stupid mall. Talk about subsidies! Can we PLEASE reprint this report, and make sure every single elected official reads this?

I've read for years that the #1 thing that drives shoppers to neighborhoods is walkability and a diversity of stores so people can get a lot done at once.

A small city surrounded by water can't compete with Hillsdale Mall for parking - never has, never will. Ironically the Hillsdale Mall developer spent money to keep San Mateo County out of BART because he was so fearful shoppers would board BART to the City instead of driving to his stupid mall.

Talk about subsidies!

]]> By: Greg Rodgers http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/27/only-17-percent-drive-to-downtown-sf-to-shop-study-finds/comment-page-1/#comment-5788 Greg Rodgers Wed, 27 May 2009 17:17:29 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2244#comment-5788 Pretty soon there won't be many malls in suburban areas, anyway. Pretty soon there won't be many malls in suburban areas, anyway.

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