Comments on: Mayor Newsom and MTA Cut Ribbon on New Solar Bus Shelters http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/ Covering San Francisco's livable streets movement Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:16:44 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: roof http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-16181 roof Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:27:37 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-16181 People use bus shelter to wait for the bus to come and not to surf there online with wi fi. It is not a cafeteria where one can sit and use wi fi without waiting for anything. Implementing wi fi in bus shelter is not a great idea from my point of view. People use bus shelter to wait for the bus to come and not to surf there online with wi fi. It is not a cafeteria where one can sit and use wi fi without waiting for anything. Implementing wi fi in bus shelter is not a great idea from my point of view.

]]> By: Jim F. http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5995 Jim F. Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:23:53 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5995 Muni doesn't have to worry about funding the shelters b/c Clear Channel is under contract to build them. Muni just has to tell Clear Channel which stops to put them at. Yes, the biggest problem with putting more nextmuni signs up is an electrical hook up. Muni doesn't have to worry about funding the shelters b/c Clear Channel is under contract to build them. Muni just has to tell Clear Channel which stops to put them at.

Yes, the biggest problem with putting more nextmuni signs up is an electrical hook up.

]]> By: Wai Yip Tung http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5993 Wai Yip Tung Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:10:15 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5993 Now that the city wifi project has died it is good to hear that they plan to set it up in bus shelters. Since people are going to wait a long time for the bus to come you might as well let people do something online. Now that the city wifi project has died it is good to hear that they plan to set it up in bus shelters. Since people are going to wait a long time for the bus to come you might as well let people do something online.

]]> By: Jamison Wieser http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5966 Jamison Wieser Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:01:00 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5966 I disagree. Setting aside the appearance (which was agreed to the majority who got involved in the process) the open design of the shelter provides much less shelter against the rain and wind that many of the other designs that were proposed. While the city is getting something done, they passed over more functional designs. I'm not ready to celebrate the decision to having custom built shelters for their appearance over the most basic function of a bus shelter. While many of the rejected alternatives would not have been unique to SF, they did benefit from field testing. Also, it doesn't look like they addressed the issue of rain gutters, which I hope means they've cleverly been hidden inside the frame. I disagree. Setting aside the appearance (which was agreed to the majority who got involved in the process) the open design of the shelter provides much less shelter against the rain and wind that many of the other designs that were proposed. While the city is getting something done, they passed over more functional designs.

I'm not ready to celebrate the decision to having custom built shelters for their appearance over the most basic function of a bus shelter. While many of the rejected alternatives would not have been unique to SF, they did benefit from field testing. Also, it doesn't look like they addressed the issue of rain gutters, which I hope means they've cleverly been hidden inside the frame.

]]> By: Derek http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5964 Derek Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:22:21 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5964 Absolutely Andrew. The fact that people are bitching about amazing quality bus shelters amazes me. All you whiners should move to a city of 250,000 that barely even has public transit and riders get to stand out on the curb, completely unsheltered. We have the worst carbon footprint of any city in the country and we still can't convince people that mass transit is a viable idea. Absolutely Andrew. The fact that people are bitching about amazing quality bus shelters amazes me. All you whiners should move to a city of 250,000 that barely even has public transit and riders get to stand out on the curb, completely unsheltered. We have the worst carbon footprint of any city in the country and we still can't convince people that mass transit is a viable idea.

]]> By: Andrew http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5952 Andrew Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:18:54 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5952 When someone posts a good story about progress online, what's the compelling human behavior that causes hundreds (sometimes thousands) of people to then critique the design, placement, government corruption, bus service, state of the earth, etc. etc. Someone is building something new + getting it done. Get off your high horses and celebrate. Or move somewhere where the debates continue on why we even need bus shelters, let alone have any information about when the next bus is due to arrive. When someone posts a good story about progress online, what's the compelling human behavior that causes hundreds (sometimes thousands) of people to then critique the design, placement, government corruption, bus service, state of the earth, etc. etc. Someone is building something new + getting it done. Get off your high horses and celebrate. Or move somewhere where the debates continue on why we even need bus shelters, let alone have any information about when the next bus is due to arrive.

]]> By: david http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5923 david Tue, 02 Jun 2009 05:26:31 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5923 I love this blog I love this blog

]]> By: murphstahoe http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5922 murphstahoe Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:57:45 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5922 iPhone - there is no substitute iPhone - there is no substitute

]]> By: Jeffrey W. Baker http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5904 Jeffrey W. Baker Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:19:39 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5904 The distribution of Nextbus signs is totally bizarre, marcos. There are some scattered on the 12 line, but the extremely busy 1-California stop/terminal at Fillmore in the same neighborhood lacks one. The distribution of Nextbus signs is totally bizarre, marcos. There are some scattered on the 12 line, but the extremely busy 1-California stop/terminal at Fillmore in the same neighborhood lacks one.

]]> By: marcos http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5895 marcos Sat, 30 May 2009 18:31:24 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5895 What's naive is that the designated stakeholders in the recent MTA budget battle did not throw Gavin Newsom's words back at him when he called for a depoliticized MTA with dedicated revenue and his budget delivers just the opposite. The debate got framed as a raid on the general fund, labor got cold feet, and now we'll see fares doubling within 6 years, service cuts in the form of fewer lines with fewer stops and those fare dollars going to pay the SFPD. The voters are ripe for nixing these shenanigans, having voted down the gimmick package just last week. Mistakes were made in not adopting that successful framing to recapture the initiative against Newsom. -marc What's naive is that the designated stakeholders in the recent MTA budget battle did not throw Gavin Newsom's words back at him when he called for a depoliticized MTA with dedicated revenue and his budget delivers just the opposite.

The debate got framed as a raid on the general fund, labor got cold feet, and now we'll see fares doubling within 6 years, service cuts in the form of fewer lines with fewer stops and those fare dollars going to pay the SFPD.

The voters are ripe for nixing these shenanigans, having voted down the gimmick package just last week. Mistakes were made in not adopting that successful framing to recapture the initiative against Newsom.

-marc

]]> By: Jamison Wieser http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5893 Jamison Wieser Sat, 30 May 2009 15:58:00 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5893 @marc don't act surprised. You're completely naive if you think the location of that shelter was anything other than politics. In the last memo to the Supervisors about service changes had a column for the districts effected, not the number of riders effected. The same was true a couple years ago when they rolled out additional next Muni signs to shelters. This really ticked off a fellow member of the Citizens Advisory Committee who noticed at 18th and Castro, signs were put up for 3 of the 4 corners and our investigation lead us to discover that while this was a major transfer point (taking the whole block together you have a major transfer point for the K,L,M,T,F,24,33,35,37 which connect many of the surrounding neighborhoods to the rest of the city) it would have given the appearance of favoring District 8. @marc don't act surprised. You're completely naive if you think the location of that shelter was anything other than politics.

In the last memo to the Supervisors about service changes had a column for the districts effected, not the number of riders effected. The same was true a couple years ago when they rolled out additional next Muni signs to shelters.

This really ticked off a fellow member of the Citizens Advisory Committee who noticed at 18th and Castro, signs were put up for 3 of the 4 corners and our investigation lead us to discover that while this was a major transfer point (taking the whole block together you have a major transfer point for the K,L,M,T,F,24,33,35,37 which connect many of the surrounding neighborhoods to the rest of the city) it would have given the appearance of favoring District 8.

]]> By: marcos http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5892 marcos Sat, 30 May 2009 15:28:31 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5892 @Jamison Wieser, so rolling out Muni facilities by supervisorial district leads one to believe that there are political factors at play. One might imagine the order of districts to be as follows [ 2 , 7 , 4 , 8 ] , [ 3 , 10 , 5 , 1 ] , [ 11 , 6 , 9 ]. I'm glad that we passed Prop E in 1999 to be sure that, in the words of a ballot argument signed by then-supervisor Newsom we: "create[d] a new Transportation Agency .to run the Municipal Railway free from political interference." -marc @Jamison Wieser, so rolling out Muni facilities by supervisorial district leads one to believe that there are political factors at play.

One might imagine the order of districts to be as follows [ 2 , 7 , 4 , 8 ] , [ 3 , 10 , 5 , 1 ] , [ 11 , 6 , 9 ]. I'm glad that we passed Prop E in 1999 to be sure that, in the words of a ballot argument signed by then-supervisor Newsom we:

"create[d] a new Transportation Agency .to run the Municipal Railway free from political interference."

-marc

]]> By: Jamison Wieser http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5890 Jamison Wieser Sat, 30 May 2009 14:41:28 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5890 I would expect these to be rolled out by supervisorial district, just like the NextMuni signs have, and not by ridership levels at the stops. I would expect these to be rolled out by supervisorial district, just like the NextMuni signs have, and not by ridership levels at the stops.

]]> By: Todd Edelman http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5888 Todd Edelman Sat, 30 May 2009 10:46:33 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5888 I think it's pretty cute that at least at one shelter - in the photo above - you can see the prices for gas just above the LED display. I think it's pretty cute that at least at one shelter - in the photo above - you can see the prices for gas just above the LED display.

]]> By: theo http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5887 theo Sat, 30 May 2009 07:43:44 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5887 @marcos: "Why might one imagine that Pacific Heights would have Muni first class Muni facilities, the likes that you'd not see down in the flast?" I'm guessing the advertising company has something to say about where shelters go. As well as which shelters get powered for back-lit ads (and more usefully, NextBus displays). Pacific Heights = designer clothing labels = lots of ad revenue. Folsom & 26th = Spanish-language PSAs = tax writeoff. If that's what happened, Muni should have pushed harder to put the shelters along popular lines, not just in affluent neighborhoods. I hope the new contract will avoid such mistakes. @marcos:

"Why might one imagine that Pacific Heights would have Muni first class Muni facilities, the likes that you'd not see down in the flast?"

I'm guessing the advertising company has something to say about where shelters go. As well as which shelters get powered for back-lit ads (and more usefully, NextBus displays).

Pacific Heights = designer clothing labels = lots of ad revenue.

Folsom & 26th = Spanish-language PSAs = tax writeoff.

If that's what happened, Muni should have pushed harder to put the shelters along popular lines, not just in affluent neighborhoods. I hope the new contract will avoid such mistakes.

]]> By: David Baker http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5885 David Baker Sat, 30 May 2009 04:08:31 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5885 Olle is a very good architect. What's unusual about his office is they have steel and wood fabrication abilities as well. This is a wonderful design, inventive and elegant: good to see some of the extraordinary local talent tapped to do some civic work. The MTA and the Mayor get cudos for me on this one. Olle is a very good architect. What's unusual about his office is they have steel and wood fabrication abilities as well. This is a wonderful design, inventive and elegant: good to see some of the extraordinary local talent tapped to do some civic work. The MTA and the Mayor get cudos for me on this one.

]]> By: marcos http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5881 marcos Sat, 30 May 2009 02:33:17 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5881 Just back from visiting a friend up at California Pacific Hospital at Clay and Buchanan. We used a City CarShare to bring him some real food, and on the drive home, happened to be following the #12 line on Washington, a barely used spur on a line that has always been a poor performer and is slated for elimination. http://www.sfmta.com/cms/rtep/documents/Binder012.pdf Whaddya know but every bus shelter every block had a damn NextMuni display. Along the Mission and SoMa segments of the line, I've not seen many. Why might one imagine that Pacific Heights would have Muni first class Muni facilities, the likes that you'd not see down in the flast? -marc Just back from visiting a friend up at California Pacific Hospital at Clay and Buchanan. We used a City CarShare to bring him some real food, and on the drive home, happened to be following the #12 line on Washington, a barely used spur on a line that has always been a poor performer and is slated for elimination.

http://www.sfmta.com/cms/rtep/documents/Binder012.pdf

Whaddya know but every bus shelter every block had a damn NextMuni display. Along the Mission and SoMa segments of the line, I've not seen many.

Why might one imagine that Pacific Heights would have Muni first class Muni facilities, the likes that you'd not see down in the flast?

-marc

]]> By: Michael Smith http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5871 Michael Smith Fri, 29 May 2009 21:34:28 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5871 Peculiar that Newsom claims to ride Muni but http://wheresgavin.com/ still has an unclaimed prize of a free FastPass to the first person who can submit a picture of him doing so. Peculiar that Newsom claims to ride Muni but http://wheresgavin.com/ still has an unclaimed prize of a free FastPass to the first person who can submit a picture of him doing so.

]]> By: Jeffrey W. Baker http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5865 Jeffrey W. Baker Fri, 29 May 2009 19:40:17 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5865 Yes you would think busier stations would get them first. For example you might expect to see a Nextbus display on Fillmore at Geary, inside the huge custom shelter, but there is not one. Yes you would think busier stations would get them first. For example you might expect to see a Nextbus display on Fillmore at Geary, inside the huge custom shelter, but there is not one.

]]> By: ZA http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/05/29/mayor-newsom-and-mta-cut-ribbon-on-new-solar-bus-shelters/comment-page-1/#comment-5863 ZA Fri, 29 May 2009 19:38:52 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2261#comment-5863 A good and desirable prototype to see more of in future. I hope that they evolve in time to accommodate ticketing, so that can mean more room and faster boarding/unboarding of trains & buses. The wavy PV roof design is eye-catching, but also bird-drop-catching too. I don't expect maintenance costs to be reduced significantly. I suggest the city attract more Peregrine Falcons. This deal does beg the question though: what happened to the Velib-style bikeshare program the Mayor was going to work out with Clear Channel? A good and desirable prototype to see more of in future. I hope that they evolve in time to accommodate ticketing, so that can mean more room and faster boarding/unboarding of trains & buses.

The wavy PV roof design is eye-catching, but also bird-drop-catching too. I don't expect maintenance costs to be reduced significantly. I suggest the city attract more Peregrine Falcons.

This deal does beg the question though: what happened to the Velib-style bikeshare program the Mayor was going to work out with Clear Channel?

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