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	<title>Comments on: London Campaign to Slow Cyclists on Shared Path Gets Creative</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/06/24/london-campaign-to-slow-cyclists-on-shared-path-gets-creative/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/06/24/london-campaign-to-slow-cyclists-on-shared-path-gets-creative/</link>
	<description>Covering San Francisco&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: Todd Edelman</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/06/24/london-campaign-to-slow-cyclists-on-shared-path-gets-creative/comment-page-1/#comment-8551</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Edelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2761#comment-8551</guid>
		<description>#3 - Marc, there is no &quot;The Germans&quot;: Implementation of cycling infrastructure varies widely in Germany. Also, those two-tone designs are implemented everywhere, including in the USA.

In Germany, a typical bad practice example for wider faster roads is taking away space from pedestrians for only subtly separated cycle paths. Aside from the danger this causes for both slower modes in relation to each other, when and if bike modal share increases a lot more in some places there will be a congestion issue for the cyclists part of the pavement. 

The solution for this is not simple, because in between a &quot;bike part&quot; of the street the motorized or mixed section there are frequently trees and parked cars.

I am not at all a pusher for &quot;vehicular cycling&quot;. I am for less de-facto segregated space for cars, in other words, less space where cars are allowed at all.

German transport officials - and mainstream cycling orgs. - generally approve of existing seriously-flawed designs like the one I describe. It is all part of what I call the &quot;German Cult of Mobility&quot; which has as one symptom an intense need to keep everything moving fast... really, it&#039;s the mantra from most Greens, too. (Related to this, German cities did not implement any congestion zones, but just tailpipe emission reduction goals for each car. The result is cleaner air - for now -  but just as much noise, collision danger and &quot;metal fatigue&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#3 - Marc, there is no "The Germans": Implementation of cycling infrastructure varies widely in Germany. Also, those two-tone designs are implemented everywhere, including in the USA.</p>
<p>In Germany, a typical bad practice example for wider faster roads is taking away space from pedestrians for only subtly separated cycle paths. Aside from the danger this causes for both slower modes in relation to each other, when and if bike modal share increases a lot more in some places there will be a congestion issue for the cyclists part of the pavement. </p>
<p>The solution for this is not simple, because in between a "bike part" of the street the motorized or mixed section there are frequently trees and parked cars.</p>
<p>I am not at all a pusher for "vehicular cycling". I am for less de-facto segregated space for cars, in other words, less space where cars are allowed at all.</p>
<p>German transport officials - and mainstream cycling orgs. - generally approve of existing seriously-flawed designs like the one I describe. It is all part of what I call the "German Cult of Mobility" which has as one symptom an intense need to keep everything moving fast... really, it's the mantra from most Greens, too. (Related to this, German cities did not implement any congestion zones, but just tailpipe emission reduction goals for each car. The result is cleaner air - for now -  but just as much noise, collision danger and "metal fatigue".)</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/06/24/london-campaign-to-slow-cyclists-on-shared-path-gets-creative/comment-page-1/#comment-8261</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2761#comment-8261</guid>
		<description>The art is cool, but if cycling is to be competitive with other modes, then it has to compete on speed as well.  We have few Class I bike paths in San Francisco, the Panhandle and Crissy Field (federal) where cyclists can travel at speed.  But the Panhandle path urges cyclists to slow down even though there is a dedicated pedestrian path on the south side.

Apparently, we speed up the Muni by cutting lines and stops, we don&#039;t enforce the speed limit for motorists, but if cyclists approach 25mph on a dedicated bike path, the sky falls in and we&#039;ve got to slow them down.

The Germans have solved this one, perhaps with more anal-ness than Americans are used to, with two-tone treatments that designate part of the way for cyclists and part for peds.

-marc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The art is cool, but if cycling is to be competitive with other modes, then it has to compete on speed as well.  We have few Class I bike paths in San Francisco, the Panhandle and Crissy Field (federal) where cyclists can travel at speed.  But the Panhandle path urges cyclists to slow down even though there is a dedicated pedestrian path on the south side.</p>
<p>Apparently, we speed up the Muni by cutting lines and stops, we don't enforce the speed limit for motorists, but if cyclists approach 25mph on a dedicated bike path, the sky falls in and we've got to slow them down.</p>
<p>The Germans have solved this one, perhaps with more anal-ness than Americans are used to, with two-tone treatments that designate part of the way for cyclists and part for peds.</p>
<p>-marc</p>
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		<title>By: Wai Yip Tung</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/06/24/london-campaign-to-slow-cyclists-on-shared-path-gets-creative/comment-page-1/#comment-8141</link>
		<dc:creator>Wai Yip Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2761#comment-8141</guid>
		<description>So you need to use the narrow wooden plank on the right to cross this crevice? This will surely make me slow down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you need to use the narrow wooden plank on the right to cross this crevice? This will surely make me slow down.</p>
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		<title>By: Richmondsfblog</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/06/24/london-campaign-to-slow-cyclists-on-shared-path-gets-creative/comment-page-1/#comment-8051</link>
		<dc:creator>Richmondsfblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=2761#comment-8051</guid>
		<description>That is truly awesome. I&#039;ve seen that artist&#039;s street work before and this is a brilliant use of it. Clever!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is truly awesome. I've seen that artist's street work before and this is a brilliant use of it. Clever!!</p>
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