Comments on: SF Approves Trial Closure of Mason Street In North Beach http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/ Covering San Francisco's livable streets movement Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:15:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: marcos http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-14311 marcos Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:15:09 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-14311 @mcas, the City has all sorts of planning guidelines that speak to maintaining the sense of place. One instance is that the alley guidelines require that development not impinge upon views of geographic features so as to maintain sense of place. Of course, developers are never made to actually adhere to those guidelines, assuming that they are richer than the folks amidst their projects. This is probably the case for North Beach, in that the lines of sight provided by a parking lot contribute to the sense of place that makes North Beach North Beach. All of this talk about "place making" in the context of "new urbanism" and "smart growth" has to do with what can be done to salvage the damaged urban fabric after an existing made-place is un-made through out of scale development. Out of scale development is encouraged by enviros in San Francisco, unwitting accomplices of developers, by buying into Metcalfe's Fallacy, that SF luxury condos and high rises compete in the housing market with exurban tract subdivisions. Yeah, we should densify urban cores and around transit stops where appropriate, but that is not carte blanche to unlock development potential irrespective of cursory arguments in that direction. Frankly, the BART and CalTrain rings are as well served by regional (housing job) transit as most places in San Francisco yet remain undensified to San Francisco's 45' standards. I wonder why there is essentially clamoring, when compared to that in San Francisco, to develop Union City BART to North Beach densities? Could it be that there has been less profit in Union City than SF? Could it be that the nonprofits which give cover to developer lobbyists get too much money in fees and hush money for them to tell the truth? -marc @mcas, the City has all sorts of planning guidelines that speak to maintaining the sense of place. One instance is that the alley guidelines require that development not impinge upon views of geographic features so as to maintain sense of place. Of course, developers are never made to actually adhere to those guidelines, assuming that they are richer than the folks amidst their projects.

This is probably the case for North Beach, in that the lines of sight provided by a parking lot contribute to the sense of place that makes North Beach North Beach.

All of this talk about “place making” in the context of “new urbanism” and “smart growth” has to do with what can be done to salvage the damaged urban fabric after an existing made-place is un-made through out of scale development.

Out of scale development is encouraged by enviros in San Francisco, unwitting accomplices of developers, by buying into Metcalfe’s Fallacy, that SF luxury condos and high rises compete in the housing market with exurban tract subdivisions. Yeah, we should densify urban cores and around transit stops where appropriate, but that is not carte blanche to unlock development potential irrespective of cursory arguments in that direction.

Frankly, the BART and CalTrain rings are as well served by regional (housing job) transit as most places in San Francisco yet remain undensified to San Francisco’s 45′ standards. I wonder why there is essentially clamoring, when compared to that in San Francisco, to develop Union City BART to North Beach densities?

Could it be that there has been less profit in Union City than SF? Could it be that the nonprofits which give cover to developer lobbyists get too much money in fees and hush money for them to tell the truth?

-marc

]]> By: mikesonn http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-14301 mikesonn Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:12:04 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-14301 I agree mcasm, I'm not saying a parking lot is open space. However, when the city took the land, they did it on the premise that it would be open space, not a library. Which is why I also find the picture that savemasonstreet used to show the "now" (as in what it should remain because of the view) to be pretty sad and hilarious at the same time. A sign with graffiti on it and several parked cars is NOTHING worth saving. I agree mcasm, I’m not saying a parking lot is open space. However, when the city took the land, they did it on the premise that it would be open space, not a library.

Which is why I also find the picture that savemasonstreet used to show the “now” (as in what it should remain because of the view) to be pretty sad and hilarious at the same time. A sign with graffiti on it and several parked cars is NOTHING worth saving.

]]> By: mcas http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-14161 mcas Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:42:58 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-14161 Can you really argue that a private parking lot is 'open space'...? That doesn't seem like it holds much water... Can you really argue that a private parking lot is ‘open space’…? That doesn’t seem like it holds much water…

]]> By: mikesonn http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-14041 mikesonn Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:55:10 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-14041 It was made by people who drive that live close to the street closure. It makes perfect sense - you want the most direct, unobstructed route possible. Also, marcos is right about the triangle. It was take by eminent domain for "open space" so the city is really opening itself up for lawsuit if they put a library on the space. I went to the meeting last night and got the board to look into working with THD to have a street party during the closure. I'm open to any and all suggestions because I want to show that this space will be used. It was made by people who drive that live close to the street closure. It makes perfect sense – you want the most direct, unobstructed route possible.

Also, marcos is right about the triangle. It was take by eminent domain for “open space” so the city is really opening itself up for lawsuit if they put a library on the space.

I went to the meeting last night and got the board to look into working with THD to have a street party during the closure. I’m open to any and all suggestions because I want to show that this space will be used.

]]> By: Aaron B. http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-13971 Aaron B. Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:01:23 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-13971 All I think when I look at savemasonstreet.org is... "Really? Really..?" It's really badly presented and unconvincing, shoddy arguments. All I think when I look at savemasonstreet.org is… “Really? Really..?”

It’s really badly presented and unconvincing, shoddy arguments.

]]> By: marcos http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-13851 marcos Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:35:42 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-13851 There is a whole history of preservation and development battles behind the triangle aside from the immediate issue of this closure. -marc There is a whole history of preservation and development battles behind the triangle aside from the immediate issue of this closure.

-marc

]]> By: SfResident http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-13831 SfResident Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:04:27 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-13831 Check out the "lost open space" photo that the savemasonstreet.org folk used under the "Mason Street Photo" section... doesn't really sell their cause very well. Check out the “lost open space” photo that the savemasonstreet.org folk used under the “Mason Street Photo” section… doesn’t really sell their cause very well.

]]> By: Matthew Roth http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-13821 Matthew Roth Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:40:26 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-13821 John, this is the main opponent, though apparently several other community organizations are upset by it. He lists the others. http://www.savemasonstreet.org/ John, this is the main opponent, though apparently several other community organizations are upset by it. He lists the others.
http://www.savemasonstreet.org/

]]> By: CBrinkman http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-13811 CBrinkman Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:15:13 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-13811 San Francisco, I'm starting to get a good feeling about our future as a more walkable, bikable, transit friendly City. As the Project for Public Spaces folks say - if you plan for more cars, you'll get more cars. If you plan for people you'll get people. And I am highly confident that yes, drivers will find a way around this one block closure. Or maybe some of them will choose not to drive and make all the streets better for everyone. San Francisco, I’m starting to get a good feeling about our future as a more walkable, bikable, transit friendly City.

As the Project for Public Spaces folks say – if you plan for more cars, you’ll get more cars. If you plan for people you’ll get people. And I am highly confident that yes, drivers will find a way around this one block closure. Or maybe some of them will choose not to drive and make all the streets better for everyone.

]]> By: John http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-13791 John Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:01:34 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-13791 I don't get it. Why is this controversial? Won't vehicles still be able to turn right on Lombard, then left on Mason....adding at the most a minute to the process? Are people really preferring a few feet of street to a plaza and garden outside the library? I can't quite believe it. Who are these people? I don’t get it. Why is this controversial? Won’t vehicles still be able to turn right on Lombard, then left on Mason….adding at the most a minute to the process? Are people really preferring a few feet of street to a plaza and garden outside the library? I can’t quite believe it. Who are these people?

]]> By: mikesonn http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/07/13/sf-approves-trial-closure-of-mason-street-in-north-beach/comment-page-1/#comment-13751 mikesonn Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:59:12 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=4151#comment-13751 I'm on the North Beach Neighbors board. I think I am the only one who supports the road closure (along with Vallejo closure). There is a meeting tonight, and I'm sure this will bring about loud shouts. I'll give an update tomorrow if anything interesting happens. I’m on the North Beach Neighbors board. I think I am the only one who supports the road closure (along with Vallejo closure). There is a meeting tonight, and I’m sure this will bring about loud shouts.

I’ll give an update tomorrow if anything interesting happens.

]]>