Comments on: A Public Space Renaissance in San Francisco

By: mike

mike — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 03:40:41 +0000

Cool article. We need to push back on the SFPD to not price-out or over regulate our fairs and parks. A fair I know had 0 problems for a number of years and the SFPD decided one year that it needed to double the usual number of officers – at overtime rates, of course. Our SFPD is actually full of great, reasonable officers, but this unwritten practice of extortion needs to stop.

By: CBrinkman

CBrinkman — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:10:24 +0000

Pat – thank you very much for volunteering, we really do appreciate it. And thank you for being passionate about Sunday Streets, hopefully in the future we will have enough events to satisfy every neighborhood request! We’re off to a great start.

By: Pat

Pat — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:31:39 +0000

I have volunteered at more than half this year… and the mindset “make it better instead of complaining in comments” is completely unproductive. I am trying to make a comment on improvement of location that would be beneficial to Sunday Streets and to the safety of neighborhoods with high pedestrian and bicycle traffic. No one goes to Illinois and 23rd street to hang out when Sunday Streets is not around, that had the feel of the city pushing the event aside to where it will not anger drivers. The 24th street one in Mission was an amazing success. I am suggesting more 24th street-esque dense neighborhoods ones and fewer Central Waterfront industrial district ones. I swear you people are actively looking for something to be offended about.

By: CBrinkman

CBrinkman — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:56:45 +0000

Pat – we think that every part of our city, and every citizen, deserves the opportunity to experience temporary (or permanent) car free space. Did you attend the westside route last month? So many families; that is a medium density area but a family heavy one. I suspect that for many of those families it was their first Sunday Streets, it’s tough to get an entire family and bikes to the Mission from the Sunset without driving. Both routes were great, but they are different types of streets and neighborhoods.

Come out on Sunday and see what a low to medium density area is like with car free streets. Car free space shouldn’t just be for some neighborhoods, but for every neighborhood that welcomes it. The Westside welcomed us with much enthusiasm. And yes, please do volunteer! It makes the event even more fun.

By: CityGal

CityGal — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:28:09 +0000

Great post! I feel the momentum that you are describing. But as someone who had the chance to work on a new public space in Mission Bay, I need to take issue with your statement that you “can imagine it getting taken over at some point by a rather different public than it has been designed for.” Those public spaces are being designed for everyone – people who live throughout the southeast section of the city and beyond. If you talk to some of the people using the promenade around Mission Creek, you’ll hear that a lot of them are coming from SOMA, where they suffer from a real lack of public space. The panhandle park is intended to connect Showplace Square and Lower Potrero to the waterfront, where there will (eventually) be a large waterfront park. I think the public spaces in Mission Bay are (and will be – the vast majority is still to come) one of the best things about the neighborhood.

By: soylatte

soylatte — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:09:43 +0000

Pat’s comments are pretty startling… “In the middle of nowhere” WTF? Check yourself, bro…

By: mcas

mcas — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:05:40 +0000

@Pat: Then make it better rather than complaining in blog comments: http://www.sundaystreetssf.com/volunteer

By: Pat

Pat — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:22:16 +0000

Sunday Streets is an unquestionably good thing, I am just annoyed that it could be better. High density areas with storefronts along the route prove to be more lively and reach more people than low-density areas with mostly affluent single-family homes or industrial areas (for any event).

By: CBrinkman

CBrinkman — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:53:33 +0000

Great article Chris – I love the background and photos. I think we are seeing a resurgence of interest in public gathering and public space. Just the difference in the reception of the idea of Sunday Streets in different neighborhoods shows that. Our city is 7×7, no area needs to feel very far away from anywhere if we just give people a fun safe way to get there, and an opportunity to explore a neighborhood we might rarely go to. The comments do point out a continuing goal of Sunday Streets..link link link.

I do always have to giggle when people complain so adamantly about free events or free on-line social networking sites. Darn this product I don’t pay for not being exactly what I think it should be! Come Out and Play on Sunday Sept 6th, and let your Supervisor know where you want a Sunday Streets.

By: ZA

ZA — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:19:15 +0000

My nominations for more Sunday Streets and block party events:
- Holly Park, McLaren Park, perhaps the length of Geneva Ave for Excelsior, perhaps the length of Vicente for the Sunset itself, and something in the Tenderloin, centered on the “Tenderloin National Park” therein.

By: mcas

mcas — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:05:18 +0000

@Pat: I think your comments are akin to the colonist’s ‘Empty Continent’ Theory… dangerous territory and a harsh accusation, but I politely would encourage you to put your perspectives in check. Lots of people live near the ‘middle of nowhere’ you describe– many of them the same race as the character of ‘Invisible Man’…

By: Pat

Pat — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:11:31 +0000

I was mostly annoyed with the Bayview Sunday Streets that literally was in the middle of nowhere except for about 3 blocks of it. The point of Sunday Streets is not to be a bike ride, it is a celebration of the idea that city streets can be a host for communities rather than just for travel. The fact that places like the Mission, Haight Street, North Beach, or Church and Market have much higher density and use make them better candidates for having an event more like 24th Street and less like the 5 people in 3 blocks I saw in one section of the Bayview Sunday Streets. They are also much more visible to people that did not know about them, which is important in spreading the whole spirit of alternative use. Ocean Beach is a destination you have to get to by crossing a large low-density, car-dependent area whereas the other places mentioned are places that people already are.

As for the Dolores Park crackdowns:
http://missionmission.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/crackdown-on-adult-behavior-in-dolores-park/
http://missionmission.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/leaked-memo-reveals-effort-to-improve-dolores-park/

By: SFResident

SFResident — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:21:03 +0000

I’m still a bit confused as to how the ferry building can be considered “out of the way.” Isn’t it the single spot in the city most easily accessible by public transit? I should also point out that the “ocean beach” Sunday Streets practically stretched to the lower height – I made it out to Oak and Baker before having to merge with traffic.

And I say, let’s have more Sunday Streets in the “out of the way” neighborhoods. Let’s close off Monterey from Circular to Junepero Serra! Let’s have a Sunday Streets on Ocean from Sunset to 280. Hell, let’s close down Sunset some weekend. How about a Portola hill-climb or a Lake Merced loop!

By: mcas

mcas — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:46:10 +0000

Great article– and I think it gives light to my recent favorite mantra about public space– it’s WHY we live in a city. It’s why we pay higher rent than the suburbs… we want to be in a community and associate with our neighbors. To me, the fact that San Francisco is 20% of Open Space (surprisingly high) at an average cost of $200 per resident (surprisingly low)– the question is: how can we continue to expand and improve open space for all of us? Would increased parking fees in parks help underwrite the cost of admission fees to museums/events in public space? Could it be used to continue to improve parks and in what way? No more tennis courts, please (we have 270)! And how much is subsidizing the Golf Courses, which are so woefully underutilized by San Franciscans?

Knowing that you pay only $200 for your parks on an average year– how much use do you get out of them? Would you be willing to pay more? How much more? For what?

By: ZA

ZA — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:40:10 +0000

Great observer as always Chris.

But let’s not flash forward 30 years, let’s set out to remember what happened with the last great wave(s) of public life in our fair city by the Bay, to make sure we can sustain and grow this to more parts of the city. We may need counter-intuitive solutions moving forward, and we can at least get a hold of the problems our forebears grappled with before. Ideally, we could get to the point that even if the masses return to the fulltime money game, the necessity of a living public space will remain unquestioned, and obligatory.

By: patrick

patrick — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:40:27 +0000

Chill out Greg, calling something out of the way isn’t an insult.

By: Susan King

Susan King — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:39:23 +0000

Chris, GREAT article, thanks for the background on the evolution of car-free spaces in SF. On the comments, I do agree that it is expensive to host events in SF for a myriad of reasons, and I hope our City leaders can help develop ways to make grassroots events more financially feasible.

I appreciate the mention of Sunday Streets in the comments, but take exception to the notion that they are deliberately held in remote places and are ‘white bread’. In fact, Sunday Streets events thus far have attracted very diverse crowds with participants from all walks of life and social, ethnic backgrounds in attendance. We have held these events in different neighborhoods for a reason, and each one attracts residents who you may not see hanging in Dolores Park or rolling along with Critical Mass. I think this part of Sunday Streets unique appeal. The Embarcadero (ground zero for Critical Mass every month, fyi) and Ocean Beach are only remote if you don’t live or work near there, but plenty of folks do.

By: Greg

Greg — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:03:46 +0000

excuse me but what the FUCK is “out of the way” about Ocean Beach? Just because they had 2 sunday streets somewhere some people deem uncool (who are uncool themselves) is good thing – there’s plenty of great stuff going on the west side , none of which was noted here. what a surprise.

try taking off the hipster blinders once in a while people and you’ll realize that hipper than thou bullshit achieves nothing. And the Mission is not the center of the universe.

By: Nick

Nick — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:00:20 +0000

When large groups of people start hanging out in parks and drinking in other neighborhoods, the police usually show up because they fear criminal activity is not far behind.

I don’t see that happening here. Maybe they’ll classify some unpermitted Stop sign running as a type of gang activity. Perhaps an injunction will follow.

Seriously, wasn’t Dolores Park the traditional ending point and after party of most CM rides? Looks like they’re just doing it during the day.

By: the greasybear

the greasybear — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:36:27 +0000

Great essay and pics connecting our burgeoning public culture with those preceding us. Another example not mentioned in the essay–Deep Trouble’s monthly outdoor “Flash Dances” that bring people out by the hundreds to boogie down in roving, impromptu street discos.

Therea are a lot of us who enjoy living outdoors with others who value fresh air, exercise, and old-fashioned face-to-face socializing. I love Streetsblog and the Internet as much as anyone else, but when I’ve got my bicycle and my friends–as long as the weather is reasonably good–I don’t need anything else to have fun.

This is the “living” we promote with livable streets, unplugged from the virtual reality of the internet and unshackled from the false prophet of shopping-mall capitalism.