Comments on: Woman Killed by Driver Near San Francisco’s Residential Highway http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/ Covering San Francisco's livable streets movement Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:15:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Todd Edelman http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-37151 Todd Edelman Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:54:54 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-37151 #16 - Jeff, it's 5% at 30 kilometres per hour, which is about 20mph. #16 – Jeff, it’s 5% at 30 kilometres per hour, which is about 20mph.

]]> By: Aaron Z http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-36991 Aaron Z Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:55:14 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-36991 Mellisa, You will be missed..... Mellisa,

You will be missed…..

]]> By: JC http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-36931 JC Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:39:44 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-36931 Thank you, JD. Someone needed to say that. Thank you, JD. Someone needed to say that.

]]> By: JD http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35921 JD Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:42:28 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35921 The victim's past is irrelevant. It doesn't excuse potentially reckless behavior by the driver or mean the victim deserves to die. To the victim's friends and family, you will read a lot of blather from idiots who don't realize this could so easily have happened to them and who are all about blaming the victim. Ignore them, they don't matter. What matters is the real human being that Melissa was and how you feel about her. You have all my sympathy, I have suffered similar losses twice. I advise you to avoid these comment sites until the pain eases. The victim’s past is irrelevant. It doesn’t excuse potentially reckless behavior by the driver or mean the victim deserves to die. To the victim’s friends and family, you will read a lot of blather from idiots who don’t realize this could so easily have happened to them and who are all about blaming the victim. Ignore them, they don’t matter. What matters is the real human being that Melissa was and how you feel about her. You have all my sympathy, I have suffered similar losses twice. I advise you to avoid these comment sites until the pain eases.

]]> By: Greg http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35911 Greg Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:42:50 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35911 At what point do we give up on fiddling around the margins here and really take a look at what we're dealing with? This area has NEVER (in recent time) been a safe place to ride a bike across Fell/Oak or walk. NEVER. It's nice to think pretty signs and "calming" things will help, but the fundamental fact of life is that you either drastically slow down traffic with concrete barriers and whatnot so you can cross the streets safely, or you give up and you build bridges or tunnels or something and separate the traffic from the people. Or alternately, give up completely on streets crossing Fell/Oak entirely. None of this is a great solution (cutting off cross town traffic on Masonic would be a disaster), but unless someone comes up with a solution that tackles these fundamental problems, more people are going to get injured. All the half-assed mitigation so far doesn't change driver behavior at all. (For fun go watch all the drivers who insist on making lefts on Lincoln at 9th, nearly killing people - and of course no one gets at ticket.) As an aside, when I used to use Fell to get to the old freeway, I hated driving down that street. I avoided it as much as I could because everyone was in such a haze of cluelessness, I had near misses with other autos all the time. Even now I won't walk near there. At what point do we give up on fiddling around the margins here and really take a look at what we’re dealing with?

This area has NEVER (in recent time) been a safe place to ride a bike across Fell/Oak or walk. NEVER. It’s nice to think pretty signs and “calming” things will help, but the fundamental fact of life is that you either drastically slow down traffic with concrete barriers and whatnot so you can cross the streets safely, or you give up and you build bridges or tunnels or something and separate the traffic from the people. Or alternately, give up completely on streets crossing Fell/Oak entirely.

None of this is a great solution (cutting off cross town traffic on Masonic would be a disaster), but unless someone comes up with a solution that tackles these fundamental problems, more people are going to get injured. All the half-assed mitigation so far doesn’t change driver behavior at all. (For fun go watch all the drivers who insist on making lefts on Lincoln at 9th, nearly killing people – and of course no one gets at ticket.)

As an aside, when I used to use Fell to get to the old freeway, I hated driving down that street. I avoided it as much as I could because everyone was in such a haze of cluelessness, I had near misses with other autos all the time. Even now I won’t walk near there.

]]> By: Nick http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35901 Nick Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:04:20 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35901 I usually just walk my bike on the sidewalk for those few blocks of Fell. We're a long way from that street being anywhere near safe. The only other option is to time the lights so that you can ride a break in traffic. Freeway speeds and bikes don't mix. RIP I usually just walk my bike on the sidewalk for those few blocks of Fell. We’re a long way from that street being anywhere near safe. The only other option is to time the lights so that you can ride a break in traffic. Freeway speeds and bikes don’t mix.

RIP

]]> By: Turk http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35881 Turk Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:43:41 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35881 There's a pic of here: http://www.prefixmag.com/forum/prefix-forum/1176/ There’s a pic of here: http://www.prefixmag.com/forum/prefix-forum/1176/

]]> By: Ian http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35871 Ian Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:24:12 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35871 I wonder if this is the same individual. The age seems to match. http://www.groundreport.com/Lifestyle/Melissa-Dennison-Nabs-2nd-DUI-in-Same-Spot-4-Month I wonder if this is the same individual. The age seems to match.

http://www.groundreport.com/Lifestyle/Melissa-Dennison-Nabs-2nd-DUI-in-Same-Spot-4-Month

]]> By: Jeff http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35801 Jeff Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:58:46 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35801 "Only" 5% of pedestrians hit by a car going 30 mph die. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/pub/hs809012.html I bet you he was moving much faster than the speed limit. Slow down people. “Only” 5% of pedestrians hit by a car going 30 mph die.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/pub/hs809012.html

I bet you he was moving much faster than the speed limit.

Slow down people.

]]> By: Filamino http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35771 Filamino Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:38:41 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35771 I doubt the signs will be used for travel time. As Troy said, that's not needed in an urban street environment. What I've seen other urban cities around the world use them for are: 1. Street closures, such as JFK Dr. on Sunday. How many times have I seen drivers try to speed pass everyone to get onto JFK Dr only to find it closed at the last second? 2. Show where parking is. If the DeYoung Garage is full, they can be directed to the UCSF Garage and Shuttle. That way, there will be fewer cars circling the neighborhood trying to find a parking space. These drivers will be too busy looking for that coveted free space instead of looking out for pedestrians and bicyclists. 3. Public Service Announcements. IE Bikes Belong - Share The Road, Slow It Down - Watch for Peds, Click it or Ticket, etc, etc. The signs are much, much smaller than freeway signs so I don't buy that argument that they create a freeway-type feel. However, I think they can blend in even better if the structure was painted green or..."Embarcadero blue"? I doubt the signs will be used for travel time. As Troy said, that’s not needed in an urban street environment. What I’ve seen other urban cities around the world use them for are:

1. Street closures, such as JFK Dr. on Sunday. How many times have I seen drivers try to speed pass everyone to get onto JFK Dr only to find it closed at the last second?
2. Show where parking is. If the DeYoung Garage is full, they can be directed to the UCSF Garage and Shuttle. That way, there will be fewer cars circling the neighborhood trying to find a parking space. These drivers will be too busy looking for that coveted free space instead of looking out for pedestrians and bicyclists.
3. Public Service Announcements. IE Bikes Belong – Share The Road, Slow It Down – Watch for Peds, Click it or Ticket, etc, etc.

The signs are much, much smaller than freeway signs so I don’t buy that argument that they create a freeway-type feel. However, I think they can blend in even better if the structure was painted green or…”Embarcadero blue”?

]]> By: Troy http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35741 Troy Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:58:26 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35741 I don't even understand what benefit these planned freeway signs on Fell/Oak would provide to DRIVERS. I mean, if you drive in the city, you know how long it takes to get from the panhandle to Octavia. And if it's especially bad on a certain day, you don't really have many other options. Are people going to hop over to Haight instead and take it down to the freeway? These signs are a waste of money and add visual blight and make Fell/Oak feel even MORE like a freeway. Is it too late to get rid of them? and fwiw, i think oneway traffic makes sense on fell/oak. I don’t even understand what benefit these planned freeway signs on Fell/Oak would provide to DRIVERS. I mean, if you drive in the city, you know how long it takes to get from the panhandle to Octavia. And if it’s especially bad on a certain day, you don’t really have many other options. Are people going to hop over to Haight instead and take it down to the freeway? These signs are a waste of money and add visual blight and make Fell/Oak feel even MORE like a freeway. Is it too late to get rid of them?

and fwiw, i think oneway traffic makes sense on fell/oak.

]]> By: Michael Smith http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35731 Michael Smith Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:30:15 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35731 For years neighbors have argued to reduce the speed limit from 30mph to 25mph at rush hour. Instead the city puts up signs that are specifically designed to be read while traveling at freeway speeds. Yet another person killed by a car is not surprising here in SF. For years neighbors have argued to reduce the speed limit from 30mph to 25mph at rush hour. Instead the city puts up signs that are specifically designed to be read while traveling at freeway speeds.

Yet another person killed by a car is not surprising here in SF.

]]> By: michael b http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35691 michael b Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:43:39 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35691 I agree: Fell and Oak should both be made two-way. SLOW traffic--this is NOT a freeway--drivers need to recognize they are going thru a neighborhood! I agree: Fell and Oak should both be made two-way. SLOW traffic–this is NOT a freeway–drivers need to recognize they are going thru a neighborhood!

]]> By: ZA http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35661 ZA Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:02:40 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35661 RIP Melissa Dennison. I hope the flowers I left you bloom into a meadow of memory and warning to everyone on that terrible blind corner. On foot, on my bike, in a car, that corner *always* scared me. RIP Melissa Dennison. I hope the flowers I left you bloom into a meadow of memory and warning to everyone on that terrible blind corner.

On foot, on my bike, in a car, that corner *always* scared me.

]]> By: Mike http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35651 Mike Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:52:53 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35651 More bad news from NOPA. Last night around 8PM I saw a woman cyclist hit on Masonic at the Turk intersection. The car came at her from behind at 40mph. It swerved around her and as it passed the side of the car hit her (it was that close). She was knocked off balance but thankfully uninjured. The car sped away without ever slowing down. Be safe out there. More bad news from NOPA. Last night around 8PM I saw a woman cyclist hit on Masonic at the Turk intersection. The car came at her from behind at 40mph. It swerved around her and as it passed the side of the car hit her (it was that close). She was knocked off balance but thankfully uninjured. The car sped away without ever slowing down. Be safe out there.

]]> By: taomom http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35621 taomom Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:11:16 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35621 Rest in peace Melissa Dennison. Twenty four years old. Mangled to death by a car. Not an easy way to die. Rest in peace Melissa Dennison. Twenty four years old. Mangled to death by a car. Not an easy way to die.

]]> By: mcas http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35611 mcas Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:56:59 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35611 Josh-- you are so silly. Hitting and killing someone with your car isn't the fault of the driver. Go read SFGATE: "...she was hit by a car..." --not by the person driving it. Cars hit things all the time, sometimes killing them, and everyone knows that it's just a fact of life-- I'm sure Melissa's parents understand that... Josh– you are so silly. Hitting and killing someone with your car isn’t the fault of the driver. Go read SFGATE: “…she was hit by a car…” –not by the person driving it. Cars hit things all the time, sometimes killing them, and everyone knows that it’s just a fact of life– I’m sure Melissa’s parents understand that…

]]> By: Josh http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35561 Josh Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:54:11 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35561 If what Sgt. Tomioka says is true, the driver must at least be cited for a moving violation in addition to any criminal charges prosecutors decide to file. CVC Section 21951 states: "Whenever any vehicle has stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle." ...Or is the CVC just a list of suggestions now? If what Sgt. Tomioka says is true, the driver must at least be cited for a moving violation in addition to any criminal charges prosecutors decide to file.

CVC Section 21951 states:

“Whenever any vehicle has stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.”

…Or is the CVC just a list of suggestions now?

]]> By: ZA http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35551 ZA Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:40:03 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35551 Considering how many people live in this area, and how many businesses need easy foot-traffic to stay healthy, there <b>should</b> be mandatory, engineered, and enforced slow-downs between at least Webster and Baker for both Fell and Oak. 15mph sounds about right. Drivers still have Geary, Masonic, 19th Ave/Hwy 1, and even Divisadero to connect between the Richmond, Pacific Heights, Downtown, the Bridges and the highways...if they just can't deal with going slowly enough to at most injure, not kill, someone. Considering how many people live in this area, and how many businesses need easy foot-traffic to stay healthy, there should be mandatory, engineered, and enforced slow-downs between at least Webster and Baker for both Fell and Oak. 15mph sounds about right.

Drivers still have Geary, Masonic, 19th Ave/Hwy 1, and even Divisadero to connect between the Richmond, Pacific Heights, Downtown, the Bridges and the highways…if they just can’t deal with going slowly enough to at most injure, not kill, someone.

]]> By: michaelSF http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/15/woman-killed-while-walking-near-san-franciscos-residential-highway/comment-page-1/#comment-35541 michaelSF Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:39:15 +0000 http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=43741#comment-35541 RE: CBrinkman's statement. SFgo stated in one document that improvements for transit, peds and bikers would be "side benefits" to the primary goal of replacing outdated infrastructure -- the signal lights and technology governing them. Side benefits better than none? But in another doc, SFgo proposes that once motorists receive information on the LED message boards, they will be more calm and will treat peds and cyclists more generously and....what? distribute cookies? really? SFgo coming to the NOPNA neighborhood meeting this Thursday, Sept. 17, Poleng Lounge, 1751 Fulton, between Central and Masonic, 7:30 pm. Bring your comments and suggestions. RE: CBrinkman’s statement. SFgo stated in one document that improvements for transit, peds and bikers would be “side benefits” to the primary goal of replacing outdated infrastructure — the signal lights and technology governing them. Side benefits better than none? But in another doc, SFgo proposes that once motorists receive information on the LED message boards, they will be more calm and will treat peds and cyclists more generously and….what? distribute cookies? really?

SFgo coming to the NOPNA neighborhood meeting this Thursday, Sept. 17, Poleng Lounge, 1751 Fulton, between Central and Masonic, 7:30 pm. Bring your comments and suggestions.

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