Comments on: San Francisco is Sinking!

By: tina

tina — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:05:27 +0000

My fave Robert Smithson quote comes to mind: “The city gives the illusion that earth does not exist.”

By: Joel Pomerantz

Joel Pomerantz — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:53:08 +0000

While I appreciate CC’s enthusiasm for my research and my article, I feel compelled to clarify, for the record: I have never referred to the underground flows as “Hayes River”, let alone “mighty”. Also, 2.5 million gallons per week is not a large amount of water, compared to the 70 to 100 million gallons per day San Francisco users consume through taps and sprinklers. Lobos Creek, a surface flow near Lake Street, supplies the Presidio with between one and two million gallons per day.

Loose, sandy soils dominate San Francisco from Ocean beach across to the Bay in a wide band that crosses the city just north of Mount Sutro and Buena Vista Park. There’s no doubt whatever that these permeable soils allow many seeps and underground waterways to flow easily beneath the streets and former dunes South of Market. But please remember that there’s rarely been enough water there in the sand to flood the sand out and show as a surface flow.

The sand and fill combine with the various water sources to make unstable soils which allow for the gradual sinking CC mentions. Before the city’s expansion interfered, the soil was constantly being built up by sand blowing in from the west at least as fast as it was washed out into the Bay.

By: Todd Edelman

Todd Edelman — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:58:20 +0000

Ja, I remember in about A.D. 1994 I lived on 14th St. just above Guerrero and the street was open for a while, with little bit of water flow in a pipe about 3 to 5 meters down. I remember staring for awhile expecting to see toilet paper, poop, alligators and whatnot but then figgered after awhile that it was actually a underground (at this time the Underground may have still been underground).

And then going back ten years I lived next to La Ballona Creek, since the early 20th a concrete culvert, and formerly known as the last part of the L.A. River until this was diverted by the atomic bomb dropped by the Gerrys on that city in 19–.

Fortunately I am almost done: Now in Berlin, formerly a marsh, lots of pumps for drinking water nearby, not safe to drink but not sure why, and the huge French firm Veolia Environment owns 49% of the water supply along with another private company. Veolia funds all sorts of important environmental events. I call it greenwash and my emails are not responded to.

By: Jh

Jh — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:09:55 +0000

Growing up in SF, conventional wisdom was don’t buy on landfill areas which included south of market (also as it was/is skid row) and the marina. Buy on bedrock.

By: ZA

ZA — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:03:41 +0000

@FCP – I am not suspicious of CC’s great work. I do want to see more data than one source. I would especially like to see a link to specific water volumes pumped, how much electricity that’s costing us, and the seasonal variability of those volumes.

The water could definitely go to very many uses, but without solid numbers, it’s hyperbole, not a probability.

By: fcp

fcp — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:54:22 +0000

@ZA:
BART’s “dewatering” of Powell station is not a secret, so there’s nothing to “confirm.” The Powell BART station is not the only structure that gets dewatered; other big buildings with deep basements or foundations have to dewater. I have heard that the SFPUC is considering trying to find a way to use this dewatered water source from Powell Station and other major buildings in the area (e.g. Moscone Center) that have to dewater their basements to supply non-potable water for the downtown and Soma. This water would be used to flush toilets and irrigate, substantially reducing water demands and water usage from pristine, potable Tuolumne/Hetch Hetchy water for uses that don’t need potable water, like flushing our crap down to the sewer.

By: ZA

ZA — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:02:49 +0000

I wish BART would confirm their water pumping.

Other than that, it’ll be interesting to see whether the pilot project to divert cars along that part of Market Street will have an appreciable impact on UN Plaza, and Halprin’s original intent for that fountain. If not, I hope Halprin will have the wisdom to re-engage his old project and have the courage to turn it over to new ideas to express his original principles for the site.

By: Schtu

Schtu — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:34:16 +0000

Until a few years ago, the toilets in the AAA building on Van Ness got their water from Hayes Creek running under the building.

By: RachaelL

RachaelL — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:48:42 +0000

Very nice article … I hadn’t realized how very much of that area was (is?) swampy half-underground lake and needed to be filled!

By: johnny0

johnny0 — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:47:35 +0000

Excellent article! $30k a mile in today’s dollars is about $750,000 per mile. Cheap!

I traced the route of the 18th St creek in Google maps a few months back: http://wp.me/pkeOr-hC

By: jamie

jamie — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:34:59 +0000

I see Rincon Point nubbing out on that old map …. I’m happy that my condo building (BayCrest, the more affordable Rincon Hill alternative – and very well run building, I might add) is not sitting on top of marsh.