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	<title>Comments on: Mayor Newsom Still Opposed to Extending Parking Meter Hours</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/</link>
	<description>Covering San Francisco&#039;s livable streets movement</description>
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		<title>By: Drunk Engineer</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41441</link>
		<dc:creator>Drunk Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 02:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41441</guid>
		<description>taomom: In this situation, the purpose for higher meter rates is increased turnover -- so that drivers guaranteed that some parking spaces are available. Nobody is talking about meter rates so prohibitively expensive that drivers are forced to sell cars.

Far from discouraging driving, this makes driving more convenient for shopping trips. It is a step backwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>taomom: In this situation, the purpose for higher meter rates is increased turnover &#8212; so that drivers guaranteed that some parking spaces are available. Nobody is talking about meter rates so prohibitively expensive that drivers are forced to sell cars.</p>
<p>Far from discouraging driving, this makes driving more convenient for shopping trips. It is a step backwards.</p>
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		<title>By: taomom</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41401</link>
		<dc:creator>taomom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41401</guid>
		<description>Drunk Engineer,

I agree with you, I&#039;d like to see lots of car parking removed to create bike lanes.  (Oak Street between Baker and Scott, anyone?)  I&#039;ve heard there&#039;s a lot of this happening in Paris, too, very successfully.

The main advantage to charging more and longer for parking in a livable streets context is that it will make owning a car more inconvenient and expensive, thus pushing some people to get rid of their car altogether.  Which in turn would mean less cars needing to be parked.  

It&#039;s too bad we can&#039;t charge parking by car size.  If all the ginormous SUVs and vans in San Francisco were turned into Honda Fits, we&#039;d need about half the parking we do in the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drunk Engineer,</p>
<p>I agree with you, I&#8217;d like to see lots of car parking removed to create bike lanes.  (Oak Street between Baker and Scott, anyone?)  I&#8217;ve heard there&#8217;s a lot of this happening in Paris, too, very successfully.</p>
<p>The main advantage to charging more and longer for parking in a livable streets context is that it will make owning a car more inconvenient and expensive, thus pushing some people to get rid of their car altogether.  Which in turn would mean less cars needing to be parked.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s too bad we can&#8217;t charge parking by car size.  If all the ginormous SUVs and vans in San Francisco were turned into Honda Fits, we&#8217;d need about half the parking we do in the city.</p>
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		<title>By: Drunk Engineer</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41341</link>
		<dc:creator>Drunk Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 04:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41341</guid>
		<description>Be careful what you wish for.

The _only_ problem solved through market-rate pricing at the meters would be increased utilization and convenience of the curbside parking for shoppers. That, in turn, leads to greater incentive for car trips and greater traffic. Whatever revenue might be earned is too marginal to help Muni (in the unlikely event those funds were even made available to transit).

Really, the discussion needs to be not how much to charge at these meters, but why have curbside parking there at all. In a place like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, that parking would have been removed to make way for bike lanes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be careful what you wish for.</p>
<p>The _only_ problem solved through market-rate pricing at the meters would be increased utilization and convenience of the curbside parking for shoppers. That, in turn, leads to greater incentive for car trips and greater traffic. Whatever revenue might be earned is too marginal to help Muni (in the unlikely event those funds were even made available to transit).</p>
<p>Really, the discussion needs to be not how much to charge at these meters, but why have curbside parking there at all. In a place like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, that parking would have been removed to make way for bike lanes.</p>
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		<title>By: The Overhead Wire</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41191</link>
		<dc:creator>The Overhead Wire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41191</guid>
		<description>I think what is missing here is the argument murphstahoe is making in that allowing parking to end at 6 is actually SUFFOCATING businesses in the districts.  That should be the frame, not saving motorists money.  In fact its a double whammy, because if you&#039;re depressing sales without metered parking, you&#039;re also depressing sales tax.  So that is a lack of meter money and sales tax. A double whammy for the city. When do we get a smart urban mayor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what is missing here is the argument murphstahoe is making in that allowing parking to end at 6 is actually SUFFOCATING businesses in the districts.  That should be the frame, not saving motorists money.  In fact its a double whammy, because if you&#8217;re depressing sales without metered parking, you&#8217;re also depressing sales tax.  So that is a lack of meter money and sales tax. A double whammy for the city. When do we get a smart urban mayor?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrienne</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41131</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrienne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 06:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41131</guid>
		<description>If you can not afford to pay an extra dollar an hour, or for an extra hour to park your car, then the fact is, you can not afford your car in the first place.  
I am with taomom.  Make spots open for 3-4 hours in the evening, but make them expensive- $3 an hour.  Every parking space in SF should cost money.  Every residential spot should have a residential parking permit attached to it, every meter should be 24 hours.  If you have overnight guests, they should have to buy a permit to park overnight (or if you have a garage, let them park there and you park on your street with your residential permit).
My family has 2 cars that we have to park on the street and I would be willing to live with having to pay to park them.  I already do with the stupid # of parking tickets I get each year : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you can not afford to pay an extra dollar an hour, or for an extra hour to park your car, then the fact is, you can not afford your car in the first place.<br />
I am with taomom.  Make spots open for 3-4 hours in the evening, but make them expensive- $3 an hour.  Every parking space in SF should cost money.  Every residential spot should have a residential parking permit attached to it, every meter should be 24 hours.  If you have overnight guests, they should have to buy a permit to park overnight (or if you have a garage, let them park there and you park on your street with your residential permit).<br />
My family has 2 cars that we have to park on the street and I would be willing to live with having to pay to park them.  I already do with the stupid # of parking tickets I get each year : )</p>
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		<title>By: taomom</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41111</link>
		<dc:creator>taomom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 05:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41111</guid>
		<description>My husband was thrilled today to find a parking meter to park his bike to within half a block of Whole Foods on 24th Street.  Didn&#039;t dream of using the bike racks there as there hasn&#039;t been a spot open since Wednesday.  We need to get the word out that if you need to drive to Whole Foods, go to the one on 17th st in Potrero Hill. It&#039;s right off the freeway and has a nice big garage.  The Noe Valley lot is minuscule.  Do not drive there.  Maybe the whole lot should be just for bicycles with a few handicapped spaces.  There are people from South San Francisco coming to the Noe Valley Whole Foods.  It&#039;s insane.

I am all for extending parking meter hours as long as you could plug the meters for four hours at a time--long enough for dinner and a movie/symphony/opera/whatever.  One hour parking in the evening is cruel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband was thrilled today to find a parking meter to park his bike to within half a block of Whole Foods on 24th Street.  Didn&#8217;t dream of using the bike racks there as there hasn&#8217;t been a spot open since Wednesday.  We need to get the word out that if you need to drive to Whole Foods, go to the one on 17th st in Potrero Hill. It&#8217;s right off the freeway and has a nice big garage.  The Noe Valley lot is minuscule.  Do not drive there.  Maybe the whole lot should be just for bicycles with a few handicapped spaces.  There are people from South San Francisco coming to the Noe Valley Whole Foods.  It&#8217;s insane.</p>
<p>I am all for extending parking meter hours as long as you could plug the meters for four hours at a time&#8211;long enough for dinner and a movie/symphony/opera/whatever.  One hour parking in the evening is cruel.</p>
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		<title>By: murphstahoe</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41081</link>
		<dc:creator>murphstahoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 04:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41081</guid>
		<description>Right now there are 2 people controlling entrance and egress to the parking lot of the new Whole Foods in Noe Valley. The lot is small given the potential customers - the &quot;guards&quot; have cones with &quot;LOT FULL&quot; on them that they put in and out of place as the lot empty and fills. 

Meanwhile, 24th St has loads of metered parking that sees high turnover until 6 PM, when residents fill those spots and leave their cars overnight (this is somewhat mitigated by the every other day street cleaning that happens early in the AM, but suffice to say those spots aren&#039;t of much use to Whole Foods or the other businesses on 24th after 6 PM).

The cost of paying parking on the street compared to the typical grocery bill - nominal (and less than a MUNI fare). 

Meanwhile, WF installed rack spots for 8 bikes in front of the store, an improvement from the zero rack spots in front of the store when it was Bell Market. The first two days of operation, I have ridden into the parking lot to find the racks full, with additional bikes locked to random poles and to the shopping cart corral. Random sampling of the bikes parked in the racks at Rainbow could have cast a light on whether 8 rack spots would be enough in Noe Valley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right now there are 2 people controlling entrance and egress to the parking lot of the new Whole Foods in Noe Valley. The lot is small given the potential customers &#8211; the &#8220;guards&#8221; have cones with &#8220;LOT FULL&#8221; on them that they put in and out of place as the lot empty and fills. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, 24th St has loads of metered parking that sees high turnover until 6 PM, when residents fill those spots and leave their cars overnight (this is somewhat mitigated by the every other day street cleaning that happens early in the AM, but suffice to say those spots aren&#8217;t of much use to Whole Foods or the other businesses on 24th after 6 PM).</p>
<p>The cost of paying parking on the street compared to the typical grocery bill &#8211; nominal (and less than a MUNI fare). </p>
<p>Meanwhile, WF installed rack spots for 8 bikes in front of the store, an improvement from the zero rack spots in front of the store when it was Bell Market. The first two days of operation, I have ridden into the parking lot to find the racks full, with additional bikes locked to random poles and to the shopping cart corral. Random sampling of the bikes parked in the racks at Rainbow could have cast a light on whether 8 rack spots would be enough in Noe Valley.</p>
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		<title>By: Drunk Engineer</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41071</link>
		<dc:creator>Drunk Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 04:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41071</guid>
		<description>Parking revenue (esp. parking tickets) should never be used as a form of revenue enhancement. Not even for Muni.

That is one of main principles behind Shoup&#039;s theories on parking management. Moreover, using parking ticket fines in this manner degrades public perception of the court system -- meter maids become seen as nothing more than shakedown artists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parking revenue (esp. parking tickets) should never be used as a form of revenue enhancement. Not even for Muni.</p>
<p>That is one of main principles behind Shoup&#8217;s theories on parking management. Moreover, using parking ticket fines in this manner degrades public perception of the court system &#8212; meter maids become seen as nothing more than shakedown artists.</p>
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		<title>By: oridnary_valet_parking</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41051</link>
		<dc:creator>oridnary_valet_parking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41051</guid>
		<description>&quot;Right now, with the economy where it is, the burden on ordinary people for city services is already stretched to the max, ...&quot;

since when does someone who can afford to own a car and drive it around the densest city on the west coast qualify as &quot;ordinary&quot;?  if you can afford the hundreds of dollars a month for a permanent parking space near your home, i think you can pay the parking meter.

newsom has confused a luxury with a basic need.  (and NO, a car is NOT a basic need in this city, get real.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Right now, with the economy where it is, the burden on ordinary people for city services is already stretched to the max, &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>since when does someone who can afford to own a car and drive it around the densest city on the west coast qualify as &#8220;ordinary&#8221;?  if you can afford the hundreds of dollars a month for a permanent parking space near your home, i think you can pay the parking meter.</p>
<p>newsom has confused a luxury with a basic need.  (and NO, a car is NOT a basic need in this city, get real.)</p>
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		<title>By: psyclist</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-41011</link>
		<dc:creator>psyclist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 00:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-41011</guid>
		<description>If Nat Ford backs down from charging reasonable rates for parking to preserve transit service, it should be clear that the strategy to make the MTA independent from politics has not gone far enough. Though the MTA Commissioners serve for term and the Mayor can&#039;t summarily replace them, they still cave in to the Mayor&#039;s whims, ignoring their own professionals. 

It&#039;s time to finish the job, and either split the MTA appointments or have an elected Board. I think we sustainable transportation advocates and the bus drivers&#039; union, working together, could muster a majority on the Board to support a shift from private cars to transit, walking, and bicycling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Nat Ford backs down from charging reasonable rates for parking to preserve transit service, it should be clear that the strategy to make the MTA independent from politics has not gone far enough. Though the MTA Commissioners serve for term and the Mayor can&#8217;t summarily replace them, they still cave in to the Mayor&#8217;s whims, ignoring their own professionals. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s time to finish the job, and either split the MTA appointments or have an elected Board. I think we sustainable transportation advocates and the bus drivers&#8217; union, working together, could muster a majority on the Board to support a shift from private cars to transit, walking, and bicycling.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/10/01/mayor-newsom-still-opposed-to-extending-parking-meter-hours/comment-page-1/#comment-40851</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sf.streetsblog.org/?p=52561#comment-40851</guid>
		<description>What a surprise. &quot;Green Gavin&quot; believes in subsidizing cars, and cutting transit. Can we please get this guy to resign and get a real Mayor for a change?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a surprise. &#8220;Green Gavin&#8221; believes in subsidizing cars, and cutting transit. Can we please get this guy to resign and get a real Mayor for a change?</p>
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