Comments on: Muni-Free Market Street: Serious Proposal or Mere Musing?

By: Jamison Wieser

Jamison Wieser — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:38:56 +0000

Even if every other Muni line were taken off Market, the F would remain. Ignoring the fact that it sometime caries as many locals as tourist, the merchants depend upon it as a visible (and face it: fun) link between the Castro , Hayes Valley and any up and coming mid-market revitilization Union Square and the museum district just to the south and then on up to the wharf. My personal vision is to see it augmented with modern a modern streetcar line that hits up splinters off to serve the less touristy by highly popular neighborhoods the F-line doesn't, maybe replacing some of the higher ridership bus on Market now)

Whatever becomes the southern trunk (Mission, Howard, Folsom) you've have a lot of lines crossing passed Market to get down there, which would give plenty of transfer opertuntirnies as they pass market.

Aa for the E-line...

Yes, the track is in place, but that's just the start of it. Development in Mission Bay is far behind scheduled (meaning no body is there to ride it, the cruise terminal never came to be and there was a dotcom bust as well)) and aside from all that there still are not enough cars (a batch of 16 have just been given the go ahead for restoration, which is about a 2-3 year process, after which those will got into service to provide relief for the cars that have been running since the F opening in 1995 (and these are damn well american build streetcars for the fact they pretty much just run non stop for 15 years with just some tune ups) which is another 2-3 years before there's a working fleet to run both the F and E if the E-line has grown to demand full time service.

For the foreseeable future though, it's really just going to be a special service for things like Sunday Streets and the more events we can encourage along the e-line, the sooner we'll see full time service.

By: mikesonn

mikesonn — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:30:14 +0000

@james, how is the E line not already built? What else needs to happen to make it available? Isn't it just going to run on N/T tracks south of the ferry building?

Also, you can't use the F line as a major replacement for the other lines that use Market. This is just a ploy by Gavin to take the discussion off of real issues.

By: Jamie Whitaker

Jamie Whitaker — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:17:11 +0000

I'd like to second the idea of a second major east-west corridor, and I designate Folsom Street for a good spot for some BRT lanes.

By: james figone

james figone — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:46:14 +0000

@jamison: Yes, a Market corridor that has transit (F and perhaps one other line) running in 2 center lanes only would be great. It would likely mean that the 21 bus and other lines that currently run down Market would either turn around at Market allowing transfer to the F or they would continue further south to a secondary corridor such as Folsom. Transit experts say that the required transfer is a non-starter however so you would need to get past that hurdle.

Along those lines, how about moving the F line off market and using modern low-floor rail vehicles instead. This would allow very frequent service on the E line when it is finally built and would eliminate the slow looping turn that the F line makes when moving from Market to Embarcadero and vise versa. For tourists, it would require a transfer at the Ferry Building but many people get on and off there anyway. Lots of possibilities.

By: poncho

poncho — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:37:06 +0000

Market street was practically made for Muni, its trunk line for the whole system, most rail and bus lines branch off of Market. If anything Market street should only be Muni.

If this proposal is going to be done anywhere, its Mission St. between Van Ness & the Ferry building.

By: Jamison Wieser

Jamison Wieser — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:59:20 +0000

Ok, so taking all Muni service off Market is just outright insane, but let's also take a second to consider that running nearly every single east-west Muni line along Market also has it's problems: 3-4 busses and streetcar get queued for an island only long enough for 2, busses pulling in and out of the sidewalk stops block traffic and pose a danger to cyclists. And since SOMA is where a lot of the growth is already coming from, why does it seem like the only real transportation plan is to have riders taking Market Street lines and then transferring to the closest north-south line? Fourth/Market/Stockton is already a choke point and will not be getting any better.

I think some consideration should be given to establishing a second major east-west corridor a little further south to serve SOMA better. It is where the job growth will be coming from over the next several decades. So would it be so crazy to consider reducing Muni (not eliminating) on Market to a level that could comfortably share the center lanes (leaving the outside lanes free for cyclists) and establishing a second major transit corridor a few blocks south?

By: Richard Mlynarik

Richard Mlynarik — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:15:21 +0000

Huh? Is Newsom still somehow involved with San Francisco somehow? Speaking of undead Willie Brown sock-puppets, it's just great to see that the awesome, SPUR-approved Central Subway is under the steely managerial helmsmanship of Emilio "Muni Meltdown" Cruz.

By: Peter Smith

Peter Smith — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 03:32:51 +0000

i'd love to get buses off of Market Street. let's build a few more streetcar lines -- real ones this time, not the magic-lifting stairs that confuse and injure everyone -- and have them span out from Market. we can continue to allow buses on Market for now, but they have to stay in the center lane, with the streetcars/rail.

By: mikesonn

mikesonn — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:21:30 +0000

This really comes down to the Examiner being a rag. That and Newsome is clueless and absent.

By: SFResident

SFResident — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:43:28 +0000

Yeah. What Greg said. I can't wait until Gavin goes away and lets the adults run the city.

By: Greg

Greg — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:19:31 +0000

Taking Newsom's feel-good brain farts seriously is a fool's errand. He could give 2 sh*ts about Muni or anything related to transit. The fact his MTA board members are so feeble in governing the MTA and the fact that Gavin, time and again, will do what he can to screw Muni and the MTA over, and the rising crime on Muni, is proof this is a diversion to put the liberals off course for a while, like he did in 2007 with his BS "make Muni free" brain fart which was never serious and again, intended to keep those of us who actually just want decent transit in a small city to work, off balance.

By: Josh

Josh — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:07:55 +0000

Thanks for the clarification on this... I think we've all been waiting for more information after this dropped - I could hear the collective 'whaaaa?' of everyone in the city.

By: patrick

patrick — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:02:41 +0000

I see zero chance of this actually happening, I don't really see any benefit or need to remove MUNI from Market St, and it would probably actually be detrimental.

I could see Mission from 6th st down being closed to all cars and buses, but Market? doesn't really make any sense.

I could also see Market being reduced to 1 lane in each direction plus bike lanes, with much wider sidewalks, that could be worthwhile.

On another note, does anybody have any numbers for improvements to MUNI since the Market St. changes? Even anecdotal from your own rides?