Comments on: Eyes on the Street: Market Street Advance Stop Bars

By: David Baker

David Baker — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:06:55 +0000

Maybe after the Injunction is lifted SFMTA will “Portlandize” these with color, a bike symbol, and “cars stop here” lettering on the stop line. I don’t believe most drivers know what that line is. it’s not very obvious.

By: zsolt

zsolt — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:45:38 +0000

I recently had a bad experience Downtoan Oakland regarding this “bike box assumption” which put me on notice to not in fact assume that everyone treats these the same. I find that some drivers are irritated by bikers positioning themselves in front of them at red light, even though this is the safest place to be for bikers. The irate motorist I encountered almost wrecked me because I failed to get going in the same nanosecond as the light switched. He presumably felt that I was slowing down his new BMW with my commuter beater. It was completely unprovoked otherwise. As he sped off I did spit through his open passenger window, something I should not have done, but it was a fight or flight reaction to what amounted to aggressive intimidation with a deadly weapon and my adrenalin shot through the roof.

I am not shy about asserting myself in traffic and taking the lane, however I have stopped positioning myself in front of cars at reds. If there were real, Portland-style bike boxes, that would be a different story. But just as a word of warning to fellow bikers — some drivers do get pissed if you do this, especially if you dare to miss the moment the light switches to green and get out of their way.

By: supainmotion

supainmotion — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:02:51 +0000

I think irregardless of what bikes are supposed to do, I’ve been observing that they (and I) are treating them as bike boxes.

By: David Baker

David Baker — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:26:32 +0000

Are bikes supposed to stop behind the “stop line” the same as cars, or is this a “bike box”?

By: jass

jass — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:39:36 +0000

I visited DC recently and found that downtown, cars stopped 3-6 feet BEFORE the stop lines. It was amazing. This seemed to be a result of crosswalks being too narrow and drivers knowing that pedestrians were going to use more space.

By: Sasha

Sasha — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:36:12 +0000

@taomom: I totally agree about not biking on Market.
I work at Van Ness & Market, and my boyfriend lives at 7th & Howard. Since the 8th St. diversion started, I actually have a harder time getting to his house because at rush hour, vehicles bottleneck in the right lane on Market at 8th. The only other lane is the MUNI track/cab-only center lane, which doesn’t have any signage indicating it’s okay for bikes to use (and I’m not psyched about the tracks anyway). And since I want to turn right on 8th, I’ve been stuck between a line of confused/angry drivers.
And all this, of course, after dodging injury and death for the block between 9th & 8th because the tour buses blithely park in the bike lane outside the hotel there.
I’m just going to keep chanting “Progress, not perfection.” And I do appreciate the progress! =]

By: the greasybear

the greasybear — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:21:13 +0000

Is there any reason to believe motorists will suddenly respect ‘stop bars’ in a way they don’t respect bike lanes or the other painted lines on our roadways? It’s not like there will be any actual enforcement, will there?

By: Peter Smith

Peter Smith — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:51:26 +0000

i like the advance stop lines. i was watching the streetfilm 'cars gone wild' film and thinking, 'man, we need a way to stop motorists from intimidating everyone so much.' this looks like a good way. are the stop lines a step towards bike boxes?

By: Nick

Nick — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:51:15 +0000

Looks like MTA is installing accomdations for motorists in an effort to ultimately discourage them from using the street.

By: Aaron Bialick

Aaron Bialick — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:44:27 +0000

taomom – about driving on market – seriously…

Hooray for de facto bike boxes!

By: taomom

taomom — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:17:31 +0000

Cars do not stop behind the stop line. They just don’t. They stop with their front bumper a hair’s breadth from the crosswalk. The only way car drivers might even notice a pushed back stop line is if the area were painted a different color and the city mounted a massive ad campaign saying “don’t stop in the green” (or whatever color it was painted.)

I’m sorry to say that the single time I rode down Market Street all the way to 4th street during Better Market Street trial, the only block that seemed absent of cars was between 8th Street and 7th (after DPT people made cars turn right on 8th.) After 7th St cars came out of nowhere and filled up the street again (no DPT people at 6th.) Can’t say my ride was pleasant, calm, free of car fumes, or that I didn’t constantly have to worry about cars. Perhaps without the trial it would’ve been even worse, but I don’t think that’s saying much.

I’m not sure why anyone in their right mind wants to drive down Market Street anyway. For SOMA, Folsom Street is better; for Union Square and the Financial District, taking one of the one way streets like Bush is better. I don’t think I’ve driven down Market Street past Eighth Street more than twice the past fifteen years. (And both times I realized it was a big mistake.) In some ways, closing Market Street off to cars after Eighth would be a kindness so that drivers would no longer torment themselves trying to drive it.