Comments on: Eyes on the Street: San Francisco’s First Green Bike Box Gets Bike Stencil

By: straw

straw — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 02:48:26 +0000

This is a very odd location, it seems to me. The box is great for turning left, but you can’t turn left here. Not really sure what the point is. Lots of other locations are much better for this treatment.

By: claudia

claudia — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:01:39 +0000

I’m glad I receive your emails…otherwise as a driver of a car I would not know what the green box with bike stencilled in it meant.
I don’t think it is intuitive.

By: Joel Ramos

Joel Ramos — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:36:53 +0000

We’re not inventing anything here, folks. This has been a success up in Oregon. It helps to remind cars of the rights of cyclists to the road, and to remind cyclists that they should be vigilant of pedestrians in crosswalks. If I see a cool “green” place like this for me, I’ll be less inclined to “creep” into the cross walk in anticipation of the green signal change.

Kudos for MTC for having done this! Given time, MOST people will naturally figure out what the box means, and that bicyclists not only have the right, but are required to make full use of the mixed-traffic lane if there is no bike lane.

By: Nathan Frankel

Nathan Frankel — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:08:18 +0000

I really hate to be negative, but as an everyday cyclist that lives in the neighborhood I don’t support the bike box design in this location. This is one of the few bicycle improvements in the city I’m not behind. Shouldn’t be bike box be located a block up at Scott/Fell? Isn’t the purpose so that we as cyclists have a safe place to wait until turning left? I bike this route multiple times per day, I’d rather stay on the right side at Scott/Oak, then get into position for the left turn when approaching the intersection where I’m actually going to turn. Wish I could say I put this bike improvement to use, but I don’t as I think it creates unnecessary conflict with cars as bikes slowly cruise up the center of the street when they could easy ride on the right hand side and move to the left at Fell.

Glad to see everyone excited about improvements; I generally am, but I’m not about this one.

By: luc

luc — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:07:47 +0000

As an non-SF resident, I have to say that I would probably have been confused by this box if I encountered it while there were no bikes in it. If someone showed me a picture in advance and I had a minute or two to think, that would be one thing. But when you’re driving through the city and you’re concerned with figuring how where you are, how to get where you’re going, and with all the traffic, I think some cars may accidentally end up inside the box.

By: djconnel

djconnel — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:58:03 +0000

The code specifically says “a marked limit line”. I see two marked limit lines. I choose to stop at the second one. I am thereby obeying the code.

Sure, there’s a picture of a bicycle there, but that symbol has applicability only for marking a bicycle lane. That is clearly not a bicycle lane because otherwise it would be illegal to drive through it unless turning right. So the picture painted on the pavement has no relevance, at least to my reading.

Cities can’t willy-nilly write their own laws by painting the roads green.

By: Judy

Judy — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:05:15 +0000

I just told a senior officer at SFPD about the box, and he asked whether the vehicle code has been updated to specifically address the bike box and define it as an advance stop line, applying only to cars and not to bikes. He says that unless SFBC lobbies to make sure the vehicle code specifically addresses this new entity, it will be difficult for police to enforce it. The more specific the vehicle code, the easier it is for them to enforce, since then the entity and fines/consequences are clearly defined and officers are trained to enforce them. There also needs to be some level of lobbying on the State level to make sure this is understood by drivers: i.e. it needs to be written into the driver’s education booklet at the DMV, so drivers understand what the rules are. I don’t know if there has been any effort by the SFBC to address these issues, but I think there needs to be, otherwise this beautiful new box is just “graffiti”, as a previous poster called it.

By: djconnel

djconnel — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:57:55 +0000

The legal argument by anonymous seems a serious matter. To what extent can a limit line apply to a sub-class of road users? The law speaks of a single limit line, not multiple lines for different classes. It seems we want legislative help here.

By: David Baker

David Baker — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:39:04 +0000

This is great. Can’t wait for the current box at 14th and Folsom to get green. Bike light there too would be great!

By: Bryan Goebel

Bryan Goebel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:55:03 +0000

@ Clutch J: I neglected to mention a third location in SF for a left-turn lane: southbound 7th Street at 16th. Thanks to MTA for letting me know that.

By: zsolt

zsolt — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:20:04 +0000

Looks to me that bikes have their own stop line, as signaled by the green box and the bike stencil. It’s not the first time that different rules would be applied to different vehicles. Happens all the time, chief.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 22:37:31 +0000

@marcSFBC: If a bike box is an advance stop line as you say, please explain how it doesn’t apply equally to bicyclists.

By: zsolt

zsolt — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:24:36 +0000

Gee at this pace we’re going to be Copenhagen by the year 2200. Sorry to be this negative, but as a sales- and property-tax paying resident of SF, this is depressing.

Lately as a macabre form of entertainment, I have taken to count the number of close calls I experience every day. It’s never zero. Less than 5 is a good day. Biking in this city, watching the politics in this city, and watching our tax dollars wasted on bullshit studies and back-and-forth, have one thing in common: they all are exercises in stoicism.

By: marcSFBC

marcSFBC — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:08:17 +0000

@Anonymous: If you had chosen to *quote* the law rather than summarize, it would be pretty clear to everyone.

VC 21453(a) states, “A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown…”

A Bike Box is an Advance Stop Line, which means entering a bike box before the light changes is, in fact, breaking the law.

By: smushmoth

smushmoth — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:39:34 +0000

It looks like a lot of cyclists don’t know what a crosswalk is, not what the green box is. VC 21453 applies to cyclists as well as motor vehicles.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:56:34 +0000

I’d really like someone to explain what section of the Vehicle Code makes one a “scofflaw” for ignoring the bike box.

California law (VC 21453), which the Legislature has made uniform throughout the state, says one must stop at a red traffic signal before entering the crosswalk, or if there is no crosswalk, before entering the intersection.

A bike box is not a crosswalk and not within the intersection, so how is there a legal requirement to do anything in its presence?

By: John Rogers

John Rogers — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:21:13 +0000

What possible use could the data be that shows that drivers, and many cyclists, do not know what an anonymous green box painted on the street is for? Why not just do the damn thing right in the first place and collect data on that?

By: Michael Rhodes

Michael Rhodes — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 07:52:29 +0000

@volker: Indeed, that probably should have read, “‘rogue graffiti types,’ said Neumann, with a wink.”

By: volker

volker — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 06:58:37 +0000

rogue graffiti types… by that I meant awesome DIYers.

my humor doesn’t translate into a soundbite or short quote very well. oops.

By: Bryan Goebel

Bryan Goebel — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 06:34:43 +0000

@Clutch J: Yes. Across the intersection is a left-turn bicycle lane that leads to Fell Street. This is one of two left-turn bicycle lanes in SF. The other is on Howard Street at 11th.