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  1.  

    Victoria Fierce

    “only”?

    Come on. Nearly every single project in Oakland gets a third party community benefits agreement. Look at all the recent developments in Chinatown: 14th x Alice, 13th and Webster, 13th and Alice. All of them have agreements brokered by former mayor Quan’s daughter.

  2.  

    Alicia

    You mean, like the driver who might have an agenda to avoid fines and possibly jail time?

    Yep, we have to avoid taking statements from people who might possibly be biased. Therefore, the police should never interview the driver.

  3.  

    Alicia

    Yep, another insult, no content.

  4.  

    RichRoLLed

    Obviously you have an agenda and it should be clear to all that you have not thought this through in the level of detail that I have and are unable to present this simply.

    It isn’t “Odd”, it is “Strange”.

  5.  

    murphstahoe

    yet you allow him to waste your time

  6.  

    RichLL

    I was not suggesting that being doored is either risk-free or pleasant. I was merely suggesting that the alternative may be worse.

    Because a door moves slowly and an oncoming vehicle does not.

    It’s the same dilemma when driving. Given the choice, I’d rather hit something that doesn’t move over something that does.

  7.  

    murphstahoe

    Odd – usually we stick to murder. I’ll bring this up at the next meeting.

  8.  

    murphstahoe

    His employer is Streetsblog, he’s paid by the click.

  9.  

    Prinzrob

    I’ve seen that proposal but haven’t heard any progress in almost a decade. The Measure DD Coalition is meeting on Monday evening if you would like to follow up on it: http://www.waterfrontaction.org/dd/index.htm#coalition

    I agree that paddling from the lake to the estuary is a great goal, but even after the 10th, 7th, and Embarcadero Bridges are upgraded, there’s still the low train bridge, EBMUD pipes, and the old access bridge to deal with south of the freeway, in addition to general sea level increase. I’ve kayaked under them before but it can require quite a bit of limbo skills even during low tide.

  10.  

    Junious Williams

    It is interesting that SPUR would convene a discussion of the Oak to Ninth Project and not invite a representative of the Oak to Ninth Community Benefits Coalition which negotiated with the developer and the city to provide 465 units of affordable housing and and estimated 300,000 hours of new apprentice work on the project and $1.65 mllion to Oakland non-proifits to prepare residentsfor entry into the trades. Seems like more than an oversight but a deliberate decision to avoid any discussion of Oakland’s only third party community benefits agreement covering a development project in Oakland. Seems like a major missing part of the story

  11.  

    Rain__or__Shine

    The initial impact with the door is not necessarily the only danger that comes with being doored. You can also be thrown in front of a car that is traveling on your left.

    The same is true even if you manage to avoid the contact with the door – you may swerve into (or in front of) a car that is to your left.

  12.  

    joechoj

    Portage? I thought a big feature of all the planned bridgework was that you’d be able to paddle all the way from the Lake to the Bay, once they convert the west side pathway under the 7th St bridge to an open water course. (See 2 old schematics found on the project page below.) Is that no longer happening?
    http://www2.oaklandnet.com/Government/o/PWA/o/EC/s/MeasureDD/OAK025953 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/65b7b0a39aea8a12fef4ad92e76f2d4662245b180a14c7199fd96ce076352941.jpg
    (North is to the left in image)

  13.  

    RichLL

    I feel sure that Jym is sincere and passionate. But part of being a mature participant in political dialog is losing the idea that you’re always right and, instead, embracing diversity.

    I really hope that Jym can demonstrate that.

  14.  

    joechoj

    Portage? I thought a big feature of all the planned bridgework was that you’d be able to paddle all the way from the Lake to the Bay, once they convert the west side pathway under the 7th St bridge to an open water course. (See 2 old schematics found on the project page below.) Is that no longer happening?

    http://www2.oaklandnet.com/Government/o/PWA/o/EC/s/MeasureDD/OAK025953

  15.  

    RichLL

    als, do you or do you not have am official cause of death?

  16.  

    als

    Why is she dead? In your fantasy simply because she was doing something other than driving a car. Dude, you have said you write these replies at work? Does your employer know?

  17.  

    RichLL

    Murphy, is part of your tactic of ignoring me to invent nom de plumes to parody me?

    Gotta say I am flattered that you think I am worth that much effort.

  18.  

    JustJake

    That was a reply to Jym, who was attacking p-chazz and RichLL. He’s edited his comment since original posting. The sanctimonious, know-more-than-everyone else attitude has become increasingly pervasive on streetsblog. That’s all.

  19.  

    RichLL

    I never said that Rudin did “nothing wrong” in respect of Dean. I concede that is possible if it is true that Rudin hit Dean.

    But nobody here has presented clear evidence that Rudin hit the woman who is now dead. Instead the citation indicates that she “lost control”.

  20.  

    RichRoLLed

    This is what happens when we give you bike lanes and green waves:

    http://sfist.com/2016/09/15/valencia_street_cyclists_punch_and.php

  21.  

    RichLL

    Not driving in the door zone implies riding more to the left. I do not doubt that you think that makes you feel safer. But aren’t you really exchanging a lower risk of a low-speed, low-impact accident for a higher risk of a high-speed, high-impact accident?

    I refer you specifically to the cyclist death discussed here where a cyclist found themselves in the path of a passing vehicle coming the other way, where keeping further right might have saved her life.

    How do you assess those respective risks?

  22.  

    thielges

    Any reasonable person can read this subthread 7 messages back and see that I challenged your assertion that Rudin did nothing wrong with Dean’s statement that he was sideswiped. Now you’re blowing smoke and conflating my challenge with other claims about this tragic case.

    At this point I am signing off of this thread and leaving it as evidence of your insincere manipulative tactics. You should be ashamed.

  23.  

    Corvus Corax

    Ouch! I hope you weren’t hurt and that you got the driver to pay for the repairs. I’ve had many close calls but only once actually hit a suddenly-flung-open door back when Valencia St had no bike lanes. Nowadays I just don’t ride in the door-zone. And I do a lot of yelling at the morons who fling their doors open without checking first. It’s not likely that yelling will get them to alter their behavior, but saying nothing certainly will not.

  24.  

    RichLL

    Oh for crying out loud thielges, we’re talking about the bicyclist who died.

    Just because a driver hits A, does not imply that he is responsible for the death of B

  25.  

    RichLL

    Not at all. I was merely suggesting that the kind of people who hang around at the scene of an accident may possibly have an agenda.

  26.  

    RichLL

  27.  

    thielges

    Oh for crying out loud Rich, we’re talking about the bicyclist who reported being sideswiped and knocked off of his bike, not Suyama. You’re just being willfully obtuse.

    This is how you have earned the reputation of being a biased time waster.

  28.  

    Prinzrob

    Yes, the plan for the 10th Street bridge includes path connections on both sides of the channel. However, the 7th Street bridge project will close the often flooded path under the bridge on the west side of the channel and replace it will a street level, signalized crossing through the median of 7th Street (some folks are also talking about a ramp from the water to portage kayaks past the flood gate there). There is a little work planned for the dark and narrow path under the 7th Street bridge on the east side, but not enough to make it any more appealing or keep it from flooding frequently, so I don’t see that side of the channel as being the preferred alignment.

    I don’t think a path connection to Victory Court or reopening that low access bridge across the channel are being considered as part of this bridge project, but I agree that additional access points would be useful.

  29.  

    dat

    Nice personal attack. Do you have anyting of substance to offer or no?

  30.  

    dat

  31.  

    RichLL

    No, I was showing the inconsistencies in this story. The article clearly suggests that Suyama was not struck by the driver. So why is she dead?

  32.  

    RichLL

    The article stated that Suyama “lost control”. While a cyclist that was hit by a car would of course lose control, that is a funny way of expressing an impact, and rather implies that there wasn’t an impact.

    In which case, why did she lose control? And why did she die? We’re missing some key facts here.

    But yes, in general, drivers and cyclists should pass safely. I just want to be certain that this driver didn’t do that ib respect of Suyama.

  33.  

    Jeffrey Baker

    I don’t think you need an EIR to produce lousy pedestrian facilities. You only need an EIR to build nice ones.

  34.  

    joechoj

    “will better connect up to Lake Merritt via a path”

    As I understand it, the new 10th St bridge project will extend the paths on both sides of the channel all the way to reconnect with the twin paths on the Laney College side of 10th St. (Do you know otherwise?) As such, path alignment shouldn’t influence the decision of the East vs West bridge option.

    When you say “surface level crossing planned at the 7th”, you mean the lower level where the path currently runs under 7th? (Just want to make sure you don’t mean street-surface level.)

    Finally, do you see any possibility to connect the bike path to the Victory Court terminus in the future, rather than 4th St? At present it’s such a terrible route to ride: not just unpleasantly close to the freeway, but unduly circuitous. A Victory Court connection would provide much more direct access to the Bay Trail and Jack London Square.

  35.  

    Prinzrob

    The entire pathway width is 16.5 feet, and how that is divided between bike and pedestrian space is not yet fully determined. The EIR does indicate that the bridge path railing will be up to 10 feet while passing over the train tracks, and 3.5 feet elsewhere. A switchback alignment was not studied in the EIR, so if the project is to happen it will be one of the alignments studied.

  36.  

    Jeffrey Baker

    That plan is pretty bad. A 6-foot pedestrian path is not enough for a major connector. 8 feet would be enough for two pairs of people to pass, but 6 isn’t.

    The animations aren’t very realistic either. I’m sure UPRR is going to insist on a taller fence than the one depicted.

    In fact I’ll be pretty shocked if this project turns out anything like these drawings. Usually we get something gross with a bunch of switchbacks and chain-link fence that goes all the way over the top.

  37.  

    Prinzrob

    I think the “Class 4” designation is mostly for planners/engineers to use, as referring to “cycletracks” or “protected bikeways” is more useful when communicating with the public.

    While a designation in order of level of protection makes sense, it would also involve a lot of confusion when dealing with older documents produced before this update. As such I think “Class 4” makes the most sense and is here to stay.

  38.  

    Prinzrob

    The website shows options for a bridge landing on both sides of the channel, but only one of those two options will be selected. My guess is that it will be the west side of the channel, as that will better connect up to Lake Merritt via a path being built now under the new 10th Street bridge and a surface level crossing planned at the 7th Street bridge.

    The bridge will go over the train tracks and under the freeway. Like I said, it really threads that needle. The plans have evolved since these were produced in 2014, but you can find some animations as to what this alignment will look like from a bridge user perspective here: http://www.lm2bt.com/animations/

    All the other fun details about this project that you will ever want can be found in the big EIR document here, released in February 2016: http://www2.oaklandnet.com/oakca1/groups/ceda/documents/memorandum/oak057218.pdf

    As for the tent camps, I think the appeal of that location is in part because it is somewhat isolated and deserted. Once the bike/ped connectivity between the lake and the estuary is improved this will no longer be the case.

  39.  

    SF Guest

    I ended up with a bent fork with the wheel touching the frame. It was traumatic enough to make me retire from biking anywhere in SF, but I remain open to biking outside of SF.

  40.  

    Flatlander

    Tangentially, I wonder if it’s too late to rethink the Class 4 designation. Until Class 4 came along, it was in descending order of separation from traffic: Class 1 – fully separated path, Class 2, bike lane. Class 3, bike route with no separation from traffic. I think now is the time to rip off the proverbial band-aid and call separated bike lanes Class 2, conventional bike lanes Class 3, and bike routes Class 4.

  41.  

    als

    To quote you “The argument could be mounted that Suyama ” – you are not presenting any “evidence” nor do you appear to be using any evidence, nor is there any “evidence” available that I’ve seen you or others offer. You are presenting fantasy, you are arguing your own fantasy, and yet you call out others as incorrect when they reply using fantasy.

  42.  

    JustJake

    A Card carrying member of the mutual admiration society has spoken. Hark.

  43.  

    murphstahoe

    He’s just trying to bait me.

  44.  

    Jeffrey Baker

    How are the bike paths on both sides of the channel going to actually work? The graphic doesn’t make a lot of sense. How does the path cross the railroad? Is it actually going to take land out of the OFD training site? Why doesn’t the graphic depict the existing 4th Street Drug Addict Recreation Area ^W^W^W^W^W class 1 path linking the end of 4th street to the channel? Where can I find the master plan?

  45.  

    robo94117

    The walk to Lake Merritt BART is just over a half mile. Not unreasonable.
    The development really needs to minimize parking and promote transit, car share, and cycling to be truly “smart.” Otherwise it’s dense “dumb” growth.

  46.  

    thielges

    Rich – I was countering your statement “But can a driver be blamed for that if he did nothing else wrong?”. Surely even you will agree that passing in a way that results in a collision is wrong. Rudin misjudged and should have waited for a safer moment to begin the pass.

    Also if you read the article you may find some other key facts you are missing.

  47.  

    RichLL

    But Dean wasn’t the cyclist who was killed. So the fact that Rudin may have hit Dean is not evidence for the claim that Rodin killed Suyama.

    And if Rudin didn’t hit Suyama then how did she die? Did she fall off her bike out of shock and bang her head? Was she wearing a helmet?

    Also how far to the left were these cyclists riding? Although some cyclists claim it is safer to keep left, this accident is a classic example of that that might be very bad advice.

    We’re missing some key facts here.

  48.  

    RichLL

    That’s your contrary evidence? The driver is innocent until proven guilty. If there was no impact then you need some other evidence, and you do not appear to have any.

    If the driver had hit the cyclist the I’d agree it was the driver’s fault. So I don’t “always” think the cyclist is wrong. In fact you always assume the driver is at fault, like here, even when you have no evidence.

  49.  

    Prinzrob

    “cyclists will be able to connect to Lake Merritt via the Lake Merritt-to-Bay Trail.”

    I think you mean the Lake Merritt to Bay Trail Bridge project (see http://www.LM2BT.com), which will thread the needle between the Lake Merritt channel and the waterfront through Caltrans, BART, EBMUD, Union Pacific, and Oakland Fire Department right of way. This project is probably 5 or more years out, though, as it can’t start until the existing Embarcadero bridge replacement is finished. After that people biking and walking will indeed be able to get from Brooklyn Basin to Lake Merritt entirely on paths and probably even faster than by car.

    Folks are also working to get those Class 2 bike lanes on Embarcadero converted into Class 4 bike lanes before implementation, which will connect to buffered bike lanes on Oak/Madison being installed right now to the Lake Merritt BART station. I foresee this being a very popular bike share route in the future.

  50.  

    Alicia

    I suspect those “accident forgiveness” policies probably have higher rates to start with, to allow them to absorb the cost of paying out for the first accident.