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Jim Frank

Overall looks like a good design. I wish there was more thought put into reducing bike and pedestrian conflict at the bus stops. Some sort of speed bumps could slow bikes down. Some education needs to be done for bus rides to keep an eye out for bikes in the cycle track. This issue will come up again in the Better Market Street plan so, let’s get this right on 2nd street.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

I agree, mike, that transit only lanes are a key part of the solution. But any element that relies on enforcement to be effective is going to fail. What if most people did not pay their fares voluntarily, and we had to rely on transit police to enforce fares? That wouldn’t work too well. I am pretty sure we have to separate the existing transit lanes spatially, visually, and physically to make breaching them really obvious and seemingly transgressive to all observers — drivers, riders, people on the street. Most people hate to perceive themselves or be perceived as lawbreakers. With far fewer violators and just a bit of enforcement, self policing should make the transit lanes work as they should.

May 29, 2013
in response to Today's Headlines
Roy Crisman

Must be a pretty good plan when the worst someone can say is “are you wasting paint/thermoplastic?” and “Box turns are dangerous!”

“Beware the Box-Turn, my son!
The peds that bite, the crosswalks that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

I don’t think the deliveries are necessarily designed to block the bike lanes. First resort is delivery zones and second is alleyways (what they’re originally intended for).

The DPT’s project manager’s comment quoted in the article is a concern but perhaps needs context. She was responding to someone saying that businesses would fail because they wouldn’t be able to get supplies to the stores/restaurants. She explained about the loading zones/alleys and then to placate some irate commentators said that absolute last resort could be the bike lane. I think she was trying to highlight the flexibility of the design, that you COULD go up to drop off a disabled taxi passenger for example, not that you should. I do think it’s a problem and I’d like to see soft hit posts installed so that ONLY emergency vehicles can go through, but I also think this may not be a big problem or a problem that can be fixed in the design. This design isn’t even finalized so at this point if anything gets built it will be cause for celebration in my book.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

Yeah, I think the ramp is a good idea and have no issues with that for the reasons you mentioned. The warning flags just go up when I hear that part of the design is to have delivery trucks use the bike lane. That is ridiculous. And that isn’t even getting into the inevitable non-delivery truck, non-emergency vehicles that you know will, once they see one car/truck parked in the bike lane (even if legitimate), use the bike lane to double-park. This aspect will require enforcement by DPT, and I’ve yet to see them enforce this issue so I’m highly skeptical. And again, this does nothing to address the fact that the design is intended to have delivery trucks blocking the bike lane and suddenly forcing cyclists out into traffic, which defeats the point of the cycle track in my mind.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
mikesonn

Speaking of selfish drivers… Stanley Roberts is back on the beat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uOy6Un-RWzs

May 29, 2013
in response to Today's Headlines
Anonymous

Keeping vehicles out of the bike lane is part of why there is the plan to paint the lane green and it will still be raised up above street level, for the first time in SF. The problem is that having it open for last resort vehicle use (hopefully only emergency vehicles) leaves it open to abuse by other vehicles.

One advantage, however, to having the ramped side of the bike lane instead of a curb is that if the lane is blocked (hopefully not by a car, let’s say by a fallen branch), getting out to avoid the object will be much easier. It also might help with cyclists who feel “trapped” in the lane. I think this design is great and could work, but there needs to be respect and/or enforcement of bike lane violations and I don’t see that happening either so I’m not sure where that leaves us other than with the understanding that this design is a compromise for all modes. Cars are losing left turns and a lane in each direction, I’m hoping with a car-free Market on the horizon vehicles will be much less of a problem on 2nd street.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

I agree. I’m worried that this cycle track will be constantly blocked by cars and delivery trucks. And I’m sure the vast majority will not be legitimate and I’m sure, like Valencia, there will be zero enforcement. To me, it’ just like the issue with cabs being given a free excuse to park in the bike lane — once their is some law on the books, people will totally stretch it and the city will never enforce it. Is that really the design we want? We need to treat cycletracks like sidewalks: do we ever say, let alone design, our streets so that cars and delivery trucks can use the sidewalk if needed? Of course not. So why is this always the case for bike lanes? It’s amazing how, as a society, we literally can’t get it through our heads that cyclists need their own space *completely* separate from cars, just like pedestrians. I’m so tired of bike lanes being the default to be blocked if the almighty cars need it. Why can’t the cars block their own traffic? Why do they always need to infringe on cyclist limited space and jeopardize their safety? Design the road so that cars/trucks have their own space to do whatever it is they need to do and stop taking that space away from cyclists.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
us

everyone should just walk. or use horses. done.

May 29, 2013
in response to Violations in SF's Transit-Only Lanes Rampant and Rarely Enforced
us

Silly Americans, think that they’re entitled to everything. “Hey! Stop parking in front of my house! ITS MINE MINE MINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE” USA! USA! USA!

May 29, 2013
in response to Violations in SF's Transit-Only Lanes Rampant and Rarely Enforced
mikesonn

We barely have any transit only lanes (or transit priority) in this city, and the little we do have is routinely blocked/abused by private autos with no enforcement. The city needs to grow up and tell all these selfish people that we, as a community, aren’t going to take it anymore and finally do something about it. That won’t happen, but Muni will continue to spiral downward until real action is taken [don't hold your breath].

May 29, 2013
in response to Today's Headlines
Mario Tanev

Muni is the only agency that lost riders in the last decade in absolute numbers, even though our population grew. Muni used to command 30% mode share a couple of decades ago, and now it stands at only 17%. If the trend continues it won’t be more than two decades where Los Angeles catches up with us, either because of a continued downward spiral on our side, or continued investment in LA. Transit has been one of the great legacies of San Francisco, and we’re about to lose it.

May 29, 2013
in response to Today's Headlines
Anonymous

Agreed, I was really impressed by the plan and presentation on Thursday’s meeting. I did feel that the discourse was somewhat hijacked by some of the wealthier car-driving attendees, but at least some of them kept an open mind to the presentation. It’s always frustrating when the critiques don’t even want to understand the details of the plan or see the logical contradictions in their complaints.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

The idea they presented at the meeting was that a combination of improvements were supposed to help improve muni times even if they are still mixed with car traffic. These are: boarding islands, not having to mix with bike traffic, banned left turns for cars, right turn box and signal for cars. There may be a few more.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

I totally agree. In March they started the environmental reviews which take 18 months and then another year or two for construction…

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
David Baker

The proposed design does a great job of balancing pedestrians, buses, bikes, deliveries, and cars. It’s an increceibly complicated situation, but this proposal is a win for everyone. Kudos to the DPW folks for listening to the community and pushing the envelope on this important “Green Connector” street. And thanks to Jane Kim for being instrumental in her support.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

For the left turns, maybe install bike boxes at the intersections to allow cyclists to filter left when the light is red for motorists, and queue boxes to facilitate the two-stage left turn when the light is green. Like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3TO7E_I5yLw/UM9KXtC7rmI/AAAAAAAAO2M/VEALRS5Q40A/s1600/bikebookturnbox.jpg

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
David Baker

Under grounding the power later is much easier than the curb and street drainage. Leaving the poles makes it possible for the City to proceed with the sidewalk widening now. Actually there aren’t that many PG&E poles and some of the building services are already underground so it’s quite possible that under grounding will occur.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
SuperQ

I never understood the SF past the intersection bus stop setup. I’m from Minneapolis where almost every bus stop is at an intersection. This improves the traffic flow and improves speed. The way SF is setup, buses will hit a red light and not be able to board anyone, then cross the light just to stop again and board passengers. Very time consuming, no wonder I can walk faster than Muni most of the time.

May 29, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
guest

Not every street needs to move private autos. Keep it transit first, prioritize MUNI, and keep all the amenities for pedestrians and bikes. Cars will avoid the street if they realize it’s not a freeway for them.

On a different note, it’s a sad reality that undergrounding of overhead lines can not be done at the same time. It’s a wasted opportunity since the poles will be left in the middle of the new sidewalks, and all the new infrastructure will have to be ripped out and replaced again. BUT since there is a moratorium after repaving streets, this means the poles will remain for what’s likely to be at least a decade.

I’d still take the improvements, but it’s still not a complete package, nor is it efficient. Think of the additional costs, and environmental impacts of building, tearing out, and rebuilding again.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Andy Chow

If the bus is located past the intersection, the buses could easily clog up the intersection whenever someone wants to board or exit. If the stop is placed before the buses would stop traffic but not clogging the intersection. It would be better to have a passing lane so that other traffic can pass the bus but all the space are going towards something else.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Kevin

2016??????????????

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
murphstahoe

“it is a street designed for car & bus throughput”.

So was Valencia.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
murphstahoe

Sanfordia – again you misinterpret the CVC. You have to pull over if you are impeding traffic, which has nothing to do with the speed limit. Otherwise, US-101 would be nothing but cars pulled over to the shoulder to let the cars behind them pass because they aren’t following the speed limit.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
murphstahoe

If I think that block is too dangerous to ride a bike on it, then I advocate to have that fixed instead of sticking my head into the sand like an ostrich.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
murphstahoe

If you can cite the day/time/train number of the SCHEDULED Train that went off schedule in the absence of a mechanical breakdown somewhere in the system, I’d be happy to talk to Caltrain about it.

May 28, 2013
in response to Livable City: Ticket Fee a Smart Way to Fund Transit to Warriors Arena
Anonymous

Totally separate issue. Bikes have a right to the full use of the lane. They also have the responsibility to pull over if not driving the speed limit and at least 3 cars are following them. Rules of the road. As a cyclist, nothing irks me more than idiot cyclists who seem to have no purpose in their cycling endeavor, other than to create chaos and break the rules of the road. I wish SFPD would cite these scofflaw cyclists, so the rabid anti-cycling interests would no longer have their villain.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Anonymous

Eastbound on 16th from Van Ness to Potrero is inhospitable to cyclists. This is where the guy died. I do not own a car, fyi, and I live, eat and work along he 16th/17th street corridor, going back and forth between the Castro and Potrero Hill. What is YOUR relationship to the street?

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Anonymous

As I said elsewhere, “should never be more than half a block away from a 17th street route cross street.”

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Anonymous

you are welcome to your own opinion, but not to inventing private facts.

May 28, 2013
in response to Livable City: Ticket Fee a Smart Way to Fund Transit to Warriors Arena
Anonymous

Actually, parking has been removed from many parts of 17th St in the eastbound direction, so it is actually much better than you may remember it. Regardless, 16th St is insane and no cyclist should be riding there.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Thomas Rogers

This was a question I raised at our PSAC (Pedestrian Safety Advisory Committee) meeting, when this was presented (I ride the 10-Townsend, myself). I recall the response was primarily that this would have to be considered through the project’s CEQA review. I wasn’t able to make this latest meeting, so I don’t know if they reported anything yet? The presentation PDF shows that happening in the “March 2013- Sept 2014″ timeframe…

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Mario Tanev

Wow! Wasn’t this street “forgotten” by the bureaucracy last year? And so far it is the most complete street design I’ve seen in the city or even the US. It’s crazy to imagine the fragility of our future. If we fight for it, it may happen, but if we don’t, it may be at the mercy of department coordination.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Easy

“last resort” – ha. That’s what the loading zones are for. If there aren’t enough loading zones, add more. We’ll never get enough enforcement of stopping in bike lanes, so don’t build sloped curbs that encourage it.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Andrew

So happy the plan now includes 15 foot sidewalks on both sides. The one side only plan was frustrating,

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Joel

It’s also unsettling to see a rendering of the proposed bus island “before” the intersection. Why force buses to wait for right-turning vehicles AND an extra signal cycle?

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
MrEricSir

They should have done this when the stadium went in. Hard to believe such an obvious solution took so long just to get to this stage.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Bob

How will this affect Muni operations? I walk this route twice daily, and the 10 and 12 are consistently stuck behind cars. Why aren’t bus-only lanes and red paint being discussed?

Like with Better Market Street, it seems this plan was made for cyclists and pedestrians, with transit as an afterthought. If we were truly trying to make Second Street “Transit First,” these proposals would look much different.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Todd Edelman

This seems like the best design in SF to date, and so I hope that all other plans are modified to be like this, or better.

Only important issues:

* Cyclists will still want to turn left where they are not allowed to — this will typically make them do a two-step transit within crosswalks. This is dangerous for both them and pedestrians. Some will also wait on the next corner… but there is no space set up for that.
* Except at intersections I don’t think green paint is necessary – and perhaps not even there. It might serve as a good introductory communication device but as a permanent solution it requires too much upkeep.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Henry

Great! Now all this needs to be done on Polk Street.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Evan Goldin

This looks awesome. I can’t wait — I take Second Street a lot as a cyclist, and I’d take it nearly every time if it looked like this. That being said, it’s not going to be started for more than THREE YEARS? There’s got to be a way to get great projects like this done faster.

May 28, 2013
in response to Details on 2nd Street Protected Bike Lanes, Ped Upgrades Come Into Focus
Anonymous

If you can cite the SCHEDULED Caltrain route that goes direct from Palo Alto in the evening commute that doesnt stop anywhere else (not even San Mateo, Millbrae, or 22nd St), then I will admit you are correct. Otherwise, go check your facts and use your position to demand better service for regular BICYCLE COMMUTERS, not Giants boozers!

May 28, 2013
in response to Livable City: Ticket Fee a Smart Way to Fund Transit to Warriors Arena
Anonymous

No, because on non-giants days, when there are breakdowns, they change the express and baby bullet trains to local trains and stop at every goddamned station. When this happens on Giants days (i.e., every 3rd day there is a giants game), they change from running local/baby bullet to Caltrain-Express-To-McCovey-Cove!

May 28, 2013
in response to Livable City: Ticket Fee a Smart Way to Fund Transit to Warriors Arena
davistrain

A 4-meter couch? This is the USA–we still measure things in feet and inches. That dad-burned metric system is OK for “furriners”, but us real Americans stick with our traditions!

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Eddie

Murphstahoe, I wasn’t saying that you or anyone “can’t use” any particular street. What I was saying is that IF you want to travel along bike lanes, THEN you can get within an easy one-block walk of any location on 16th Street. That’s pretty good.

You are obviously free to use a busier, more stressful and dangerous street to get there if you wish to. But all road users sometimes choose different and even longer or slower or quieter routes sometimes just to save hassle, stress and, in some cases, danger.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
murphstahoe

my point is that “You can’t use that road” is bullshit

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Eddie

Re Polk, if the equivalent amount of parking was merely being relocated by one block, then I doubt that the merchants would object so much. But of course it is being removed which means that in practice the walk may be considerably further.

My point was more to the idea that a bike lane always get you to within a block of your 16th Street destination.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Anonymous

Yes, @p_chazz:disqus, that is true. But by the same token, it is true that not everybody needs a car for *everything* they do. It drives me nuts when someone advocates for doing something by bicycle and then somebody else chimes in, “Oh yeah, well what if I need to move A COUCH! How you gonna do that on a bike, smarty pants?!” The inanity of this sort of comment is half the reason is why it’s so damn hard to affect positive change in this country. If the only reason people were using cars was when they actually *had* to (like moving a couch), then our problems would be solved and there would hardly be any cars on the road. The problem is not that cars aren’t useful but that they are *abused*, that is, the vast majority of the time they could easily be replaced with bicycling, walking, or public transit.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
murphstahoe

I presume you are staunchly defending the removal of parking on Polk Street because people can just walk from the other streets where there is parking?

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness
Anonymous

Just need to correct this because it always bugs me as being unnecessarily verbose: it’s not a “high rate of speed”, it’s just a “high speed” (cops talk like this all the time too). A “high rate of speed” would be a high acceleration, which obviously was not the case since the power of your quad muscles clearly doesn’t lead to high accelerations.

May 28, 2013
in response to Man on Bike Killed by Garbage Truck Driver at 16th and South Van Ness