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  1.  

    mx

    A lot of people don’t actually get it (and some do understand but just don’t care). But painting lanes alternating red and yellow isn’t the answer either. The last thing we need is even more non-standardized color-coded pavement treatments. SF cannot make up its own suite of traffic control devices and expect the world, including tourists renting a car and driving in the city for the first time, to understand them.

  2.  

    mx

    “Rec and Park Proposes Panhandle Upgrades, But Protected Bike Lanes Needed on Fell and Oak”

    Why? Can’t the Panhandle accommodate a dedicated bike path and a separate path for walking/jogging? Isn’t a dedicated bike path (with proper well-maintained paving) with dedicated bike signals even better than a protected bike lane? Separate bike paths aren’t practical in many areas, but should be feasible in the park and panhandle.

  3.  

    Rebecca Gardner

    Which is why I wrote that we really need an Idaho Stop law here.

    I think we are on the same page here, you just don’t like the word arrogant. I do. C’est la vie. I’ll tell you why I call them arrogant jerks and the sort of person I am referring to as being arrogant. Last month I came to a full stop at a stop sign in the wiggle. I then proceeded when safe. A cyclist going over 20 mph came out of nowhere, blew the stop sign almost T-Boning me, then had the arrogance to yell at me, “REALLY! FUCK YOU!” He was 100% wrong so if that is not an arrogant jerk I truly do not know what is.

  4.  

    murphstahoe

    I guess.

    My problem is a little bit on the political side – because there are plenty of people, Ed Lee and John Sanford included who think that “people that slowly and cautiously go through stop signs” are arrogant jerks. I think that adopting their language to apply it to a subset of cyclists just perpetuates them applying it to the entire set. Which is why I avoid it altogether.

  5.  

    Rebecca Gardner

    So sorry. I apparently misread what you wrote.

    However, in my original post I wrote, I really cannot stomach the arrogant jerks that blast through stop signs at speed without slowing down at all. Ticketing the ones that slow down, look for cars and pedestrians, and continue should not be ticketed. So I do not see how that differs from what you just posted. I did not call the people that slowly and cautiously go through stop signs as arrogant. I called the ones that blow through intersections at over 20 MPH and never even attempt to slow down as being arrogant, and truly, that is how they are behaving.

  6.  

    murphstahoe

    Waste of his time right now. It would never get anywhere.

  7.  

    murphstahoe

    What? Wow.

    My point is that I think your assessment of what drives the stop sign runners is divergent from what’s really going on with that set of folks. And I said “I don’t think it fits” – because it’s just like, my opinion, man, not some well researched thesis.

    I don’t really believe that when I see someone taking those turns at 5-7 MPH in the wiggle they are expressing self-importance of egotism Maybe I’m wrong. This is just like, my opinion man.

    l think applying words like conceit, pride, self-importance, and egotism to someone rolling a stop sign in the wiggle devalues the meaning of those terms when we have some real actual scary monsters in this world.

  8.  

    Rebecca Gardner

    Your definition of arrogant fits my comment perfectly. Did you read what you typed or what I posted? If you include synonyms it makes my uses of the word as an adjective even more apropos. Synonyms include, conceit, pride, self-importance, egotism, and your post.

    Do you feel superior to everyone now? Good. Have a nice day.

  9.  

    Jimbo

    despite all the demonizing and racism displayed on this site, Sanford seems like a decent guy willing to listen and talk.

  10.  

    murphstahoe

    Arrogant – “making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud”

    I keep seeing this word used, but I don’t think it fits. Neither does “entitled”. I could see “careless”, “lazy”, “ambivalent”. And I like those terms better because arrogant and entitled are inflammatory and are more easily used to describe the entire “cycling community” whatever the hell that is.

  11.  

    Xavier Harmony

    You should check out this then: http://www.bettermarketstreetsf.org/

  12.  

    crazyvag

    Onboard bathrooms are just inherently cheaper to maintain. Yes, you lose some seat space, but where are you going to put a bathroom in San Antonio? Or 22nd Street? Who will pay for cleaning all 30+ bathrooms? How will security be provided at night? After 8pm, when only 3-4 trains are in service, the conductors provide security and cleaning is done as part of cleaning trains in the same place. I just don’t see how it can be cost effective to have bathrooms on stations.

  13.  

    Mario Tanev

    Reading more about this I think I understand the issue better.

    4th St (one block over) is one-way. Because Ellis and Stockton are both closed, vehicles have no other way to get to 4th, except by turning from Market onto it. That’s why they allow turning right on Market from 5th, then turning right onto 4th. However, there are several problems with that. 5th St and Market St between 4th and 5th are extremely busy streets and are heavily pedestrian. That’s precisely where you don’t want a lot of vehicles.

    If any right turns should be banned they should be banned here. The SFMTA could mitigate the situation in several ways:
    1. It can force right turns from Market onto 4th (i.e. so people don’t use the 5th to Market turn to drive all the way to the Embarcadero. That will reduce turns only to people who legitimately need to get to 4th.
    2. Dead-end 4th St at Market and make it two-way between Mission and Market. This will be great for pedestrians as they don’t have to worry about crossing this busy intersection, and drivers can reach the hotel from Mission.
    3. Since taxi drivers and delivery trucks are still allowed to turn, only allow them to do so. Most traffic there is of that nature due to the hotel. Sorry, no Ubering at the hotel. Drivers could still get to the Cole Hardware by turning right from Jesse.

    I like #2 best. It allows full access to 4th St and it makes it a more pedestrian environment.

  14.  

    SF_Abe

    Muni provides service to all of San Francisco, including Golden Gate Park. It also connects with regional transit.

    There’s no need to use a car to get to or from Outside Lands– just lame excuses.

  15.  

    Rebecca Gardner

    Your sarcasm meter needs calibration.

  16.  

    Rebecca Gardner

    I bicycle every single day. It’s how I commute, grocery shop, etc. I really cannot stomach the arrogant jerks that blast through stop signs at speed without slowing down at all. Ticketing the ones that slow down, look for cars and pedestrians, and continue should not be ticketed. We really do need an “Idaho Stop” law here.

  17.  

    Rebecca Gardner

    Perfect post!

  18.  

    Sanchez Resident

    Scott Weiner is running for State Senator. Let’s get him to support adopting Idaho Stop law in California. He could do this if elected and make the change statewide.

  19.  

    StrixNoctis .

    You’re assuming the SUV driver followed the laws, but the possibilities also exist that the SUV driver could have ran a red light or attempted to make an illegal right turn.

    I wonder if the cameras at that intersection captured what happened?

  20.  

    hp2ena

    Was on Market adjacent UN Plaza around 2pm today to observe the spectacle. Market is much calmer than normal. Everything went well on 8th Street. On 7th, I noticed the only ones breaking the rules were:
    -Uber drivers (I swore I didn’t see any Lyfts around)
    -People driving high-class or new cars (i.e. Mercedes, BMW).

    They did not receive tickets.

    Then again, I guess another aspect (aside from that they’re doing it just to be cocky) is some may not actually genuinely get that they’re not supposed to drive there. To that end, the SFMTA should consider painting all lanes that feed directly into Market alternating red and yellow (to symbolize delivery trucks) bands overlaid with greenbacked sharrows.

    Also, could we get some furniture on these very big safety zones? Reinforce the restrictions while providing ad-hoc open space!

  21.  

    hp2ena

    Boo because of this. That’s probably the busiest ped intersection on Market. All the right-turning cars are causing congestion on 5th northbound, which in effect slows the 27 down.

  22.  

    Justin

    It’s about time this was implemented, hopefully this will be extended all the way down to the Embarcadero. It’s been too funny yet absurd to see so many myopic yet obtuse people/snobby motorists cry foul about these changes on social media without FULLY understanding the purpose, reason and benefits of this. It’s like they believe this is the apocalypse or carmageddon even though this has been happening partially at 10th St for the last six years and it hasn’t been that bad since. Though I am curious long term how will the city enforce this?

  23.  

    Andy Chow

    Muni doesn’t provide service from a lot of areas though, but there was a traffic issue especially at the end of the show where riders wait for their TNC car.

  24.  

    Andy Chow

    Too much space is given away for private car parking.

  25.  

    alberto rossi

    The piecemeal approach is designed to put off the spending money part as long as possible. Much cheaper to keep repainting lanes and “safety zones” then start all over again before we get to the expensive stuff like pouring concrete. Meanwhile, the consultants get to run up the billable hours, the one thing it *is* OK to spend tons of money on. (I’m starting to sound like Richard M.)

  26.  

    David Baker

    Huge difference riding up Market today. This is a brilliant strategy: kudos to the SFMTA.

  27.  

    murphstahoe

    Dunno. The kicker is that now there will be a huge percentage of people afraid of “hacked” self-driving cars without really contemplating that our cars are already “hacked”

  28.  

    thingsthings

    well said

  29.  

    SF_Abe

    Safe and legal alternative: Muni

  30.  

    Mario Tanev

    Apparently 5th still allows turns due to the closure of Ellis due to the central subway construction.

  31.  

    Ziggy Tomcich

    It’s a good start, but Market street really needs a complete redesign.

  32.  

    MrEricSir

    This piecemeal approach to street safety is too little, too late. How many more people have to die before we completely ban private automobiles?

  33.  

    SFnative74

    “Ticketing bicyclists for low speed yielding is idiotic, a waste of both our tax dollars and limited police resources. However, anyone who bikes like they are the only person in the world who matters should be landed with a fat ticket.”

    Hear, hear! This sounds so simple and reasonable. I don’t know why it’s so hard for police officers to focus on the total jacka$$es, especially when there are plenty of them out there.

  34.  

    Donovan Lacy

    See you at the wiggle. I will keep an eye out for your moonwalking protest. Don’t forget that CVC 21456 prohibits pedestrian from entering a crosswalk once the white walk sign has changed to don’t walk or the orange countdown has begun. I would hate for you to get a ticket.

    21456. Whenever a pedestrian control signal showing the words “WALK” or “WAIT” or “DONT WALK” or other approved symbol is in place, the signal shall indicate as follows:

    (a) “WALK” or approved “Walking Person” symbol. A pedestrian facing the signal may proceed across the roadway in the direction of the signal, but shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully within the intersection at the time that signal is first shown.

    (b) Flashing or steady “DONT WALK” or “WAIT” or approved “Upraised Hand” symbol. No pedestrian shall start to cross the roadway in the direction of the signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed crossing shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety zone or otherwise leave the roadway while the “WAIT” or “DONT WALK” or approved “Upraised Hand” symbol is showing.

  35.  

    NoeValleyJim

    I walked down to check it out over lunch hour and saw a PCO directing traffic at O’Farrell and Market. This might work for today, but what are they doing for the longer turn?

    Also, it was nice to see so much less traffic on Market and it was nice to eat in the sunshine next to a new and better Market street, but I couldn’t help but notice that nothing was stopping cars from coming up Market from Embarcadero. I also checked at 5th and Market and there was no signage telling drivers that turns onto Market were prohibited, so of course cars were still turning onto Market there. The PCO stationed there was just watching traffic, not trying to direct it.

    It looks like it has a few kinks that still need to be worked out.

  36.  

    shotwellian

    I went and checked it out today. Noticeably fewer private cars on the street, but still nowhere near “car-free.” Does anyone know why westbound cars are still being allowed to go through from 3rd & Market? It would be simple to have a required right turn onto Geary.

  37.  

    Donovan Lacy

    In the instance that you recounted, you are faulting the bicyclist for following the letter of the law. They are protesting by obeying the law.

    I will agree that the bicyclist may have acted rashly in their response to the mother trying to pick up her child, but would you also agree that the mother acted rashly as well as illegally by attempting to go around several stopped vehicles.

    You are able to empathize with the frustrate mother who is breaking the law but unwilling to empathize with the cyclists who are frustrated by what they believe is a selective enforcement of the stop sign law.

  38.  

    murphstahoe

    spare me Mr “THINK OF THE CHILDREN! The THUGZ!”

  39.  

    jd_x

    Amazing how we remembers the one cyclist of two who have killed anybody in a decade (longer?) but I bet he can’t name a single one of the motorists who have killed approximately 200+ pedestrians and bicyclists in that time. About as biased (confirmation bias) as they come ….

  40.  

    The Colonel

    “So when they don’t stop at stop signs – they are threats, because they are breaking the law?”

    No, I would think the law exists to minimize the threat of injury that can result when cyclists don’t follow the traffic laws.

    When did you adopt this strategy of building false syllogisms premised on obviously incorrect assumptions? It’s like you’re a Professor of Logic at Fox News University or something. QEDFOX.

  41.  

    Donovan Lacy

    Jimbo,

    You have your own Godwin’s law, but instead of Nazis you bring Chris Bucherre in just about every discussion. We can call it the Jimbo Rule.

    I assume that you would be okay with putting every motorist in jail for life that kills someone while texting, changing the radio station or are otherwise distracted?

  42.  

    jd_x

    “so it will be informative to see how the authorities handle this one”

    I’m pretty sure we won’t here anything about how they handled this, since bicyclists don’t matter to the cops … unless they are rolling stop signs in which case they are a huge threat to everyone’s safety, enough so to warrant a “crackdown” from SFPD.

  43.  

    murphstahoe

    So when they don’t stop at stop signs – they are threats, because they are breaking the law? Breaking the law = threat, must be stopped.

    “She was just trying to pick up her kid before school” – you say? What I believe you said was she “tried to go around the stopped cyclists”. Which is illegal – otherwise known as a threat. Presumably Capt John Sanford cited her for this anti-social behavior

  44.  

    Jimbo

    chris bucherre went through a solid red, as many witnesses testified

  45.  

    Jimbo

    and he was racing to play his little video game. should be in prison for life

  46.  

    Andy Chow

    In the cases of SamTrans and Golden Gate Transit, these routes use city streets to access downtown SF. AC Transit already access downtown SF directly from the bridge.

    If AC Transit were to serve 4th & King, it would also extend beyond 4th & King since there’s no layover space there. That might be UCSF Mission Bay, SF General, or other destinations with large employment.

    If that route isn’t going to serve Transbay, where should it go with either sufficient ridership to 4th & King and beyond, and/or provide connection to other AC routes?

    Golden Gate Transit provides limited service along Geary but ridership is mediocre compared to the bulk of the service along Van Ness or Financial District. Transfer to other routes is available at the GGB toll plaza.

  47.  

    Jym Dyer

    @Karen Lynn Allen – When I first moved to Noe Valley, I noticed the same thing, the basic excuse being the hilly terrain. I actually called the police after nearly being hit, and they refused to take a report unless I was hit. Then when I was hit, I called and they refused to take a report unless I’d been sent to the hospital (which would mean it was too late).

    That was years ago. As I read in a Streetsblog story 5 days ago, Sean Rea started sending complaints of real incidents (recorded on his Contour videocamera) to Park Station and Captain Sanford dismissed them by saying, “It appears that you have already made your mind up.”

    So it seems the complaint-driven enforcement priorities only count if your complaint is about bicycles.

  48.  

    Roy

    I saw that. Thanks for following up. He stopped short of proposing any legislation or coming out in support for the Idaho stop, but it is good to have his support in this matter.

  49.  

    Jym Dyer

  50.  

    Karen Lynn Allen

    As a pedestrian, on a daily basis I notice that 9 out of 10 drivers in Noe Valley at four-way stops do not come to a complete stop if no other cars are present. 1 out of 10 do not stop even if a pedestrian is actively crossing. (This morning I observed even SFMTA meter maids whizzing through stop signs on Sanchez Street at 10+ mph.)

    I don’t have a problem with drivers rolling through stops at 2 mph, except for the fact that cars have blindspots and drivers often fail to see pedestrians and bicyclists even at this speed. It’s even more dangerous when drivers roll through stop signs and then punch their accelerators oblivious to all non-car street users.

    However, as a bicyclist, I think bicyclists need to claim their share of responsibility. Slowing down and yielding at stop signs for bicyclists emphatically does NOT mean whizzing through intersections at speeds over 7 mph. It means slowing down. It does not mean swooping through an intersection making all the other bicyclists, drivers, and pedestrians who got there first wait for you. It means yielding. It does not mean zooming past pedestrians with inches to spare, startling them, just because you’re pretty sure you’re in control enough not to hit them. It means being considerate and doing your part to make bicycling work in San Francisco.

    Ticketing bicyclists for low speed yielding is idiotic, a waste of both our tax dollars and limited police resources. However, anyone who bikes like they are the only person in the world who matters should be landed with a fat ticket.