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    Leon Foonman

    whaahhhh wahhhhh wahhhh……whenever you’re done whining, you should get back in your Tercel and talk on your cell phone….


    Leon Foonman

    Bicyclists are a health hazard in SF. If anyone ever sees a bicyclist stop at a stops sign, they will have a heart attack.



    Oh the horror. There’s traffic on the bay bridge to go to treasure island flea. Quit whining, crybabies.


    Dave Moore

    – Pedestrians are less at risk than they perceive because cyclists are more nimble than drivers and able to avoid collisions even though they have many close calls.

    This might explain why there are many complaints but low crash statistics, and why both pedestrians and cyclists feel they are in the right. From the cyclist’s point of view they went through a crosswalk and navigated successfully around pedestrians and never felt at risk. From the pedestrian’s point of view they just missed being run over by a cyclist and felt unsafe. I know when I’m on my scooter I’m pretty attuned to everything around me. I can only assume a cyclist feels the same way. The interaction could feel like it’s moving slowly and there was never any danger of impact. But the pedestrian was walking along at a slower pace and to them it feels like they were just buzzed by a speeding bike.



    Maybe we need some Uber/Lyft-type start-up to come around and rejuvenate what has become a stale industry (just like cabs had become). Not saying that a single boat-single passenger model would work, but maybe a start-up could buy smaller boats and run them when they’re full using apps that focusing on “boat-sharing”. Hmmm …. maybe this is a good start-up idea I should pursue …


    Jym Dyer

    @SF Guest – Most people don’t even know about the AAA’s lobbying efforts, but they are substantial. As for the SFBC’s power, it was only 3 years ago that the SFMTA’s bike expenditures expanded to a jaw-dropping, awe-inspiring %0.46 of its budget. This led to much pearl-clutching, garment-rendering, and endless shrieks about some sort of WAR ON CARS!!!!111


    Andy Chow

    Ferry service is a complicated issue. In markets that can support more ferries (Sausalito – SF for instance), there are opposition from the city (which does not want to attract more tourists) as well as existing providers. Red & White Fleet tried to apply CPUC for a route but failed because of opposition from Blue & Gold and Golden Gate Ferry.

    Other markets may not be attractive enough to sustain commuter ferry, especially suburb to suburb (rather than to/from SF). South San Francisco ferry launched a few years ago and has been struggling. Unlike downtown SF, a lot of developments are beyond walking distance from the ferry, which require feeder transportation on both ends.

    In a lot of areas, there is no suitable ferry terminal without substantial investment. Starting a new ferry route in some ways is no different than building new rail stations, rather than starting a bus route, which require far less initial investment.



    “No coalition including AAA is as powerful as SFBC.”

    AYFKM?! AAA has 54 million members in North America. Fifty. Four. Million. You just don’t notice them as much as the local bike coalition because their influence is so ingrained into the system, and because they don’t have to do grassroots community organizing as their interests are the default position.



    Morgan, et. al. now is the time to start demanding that SFPD monitor and enforce the 3 foot passing law while this is going on.



    I walk through this area daily and find it rare to see a car make a full stop at a stop sign unless there are vehicles or pedestrians in the intersection (California Stop).

    I have never had an issue with bikes in the wiggle when walking. Most people stop or yield when I’m in the crosswalk. How many complaints has Park Station received? It’s likely fewer than the backlash to their planned enforcement



    Oh man. A wiggle thread just is not the same without that one dude who used to describe crossing the street on the wiggle like it was a scene from Mad Max at every intersection.




    SF Guest

    Are there any Exxon Mobile stations in SF? Someone or something must have driven them out of SF.



    You’re right! We also need the SFPD to start handing out tickets to all motorists who go 1 mph past the posted limit because IT’S THE LAW!!!



    I’ve often wondered why there aren’t more maritime cross-bay services to fill in the location (and especially time) gaps left by GGT and Blue & Gold Fleet ferries.

    With the amount of car traffic consistently on the San Rafael-Richmond Bridge (in either direction) presumably there’s even some demand for Marin-East Bay service.



    Hard to take you seriously when you say that. Nobody is making fun of anyone but you, and certainly not because of your race; it’s because your arguments on this site are specious at best. Stop digging.



    So you’re saying that the SFBC is more powerful than Exxon Mobile. Great! Soon we will rule the world.



    Another banner day for Muni, eh? Well at least management’s cushy jobs are guaranteed for life no matter how badly they screw things up.


    SF Guest

    No coalition including AAA is as powerful as SFBC. All the prospective BOS candidates know if they don’t answer your bike survey satisfactorily they have zero chance of being elected.

    On that basis alone I can’t agree with your comment that AAA is far more powerful than the SFBC. No coalition is going to submit a car survey to BOS candidates for their consideration.



    The argument is about which enforcement priorities will have the largest positive impact on safety, not about whether bicyclists should be allowed to ignore traffic laws.

    If you think that blanket ticketing stings of bicyclists will have a significant impact on reducing traffic injuries and fatalities in San Francisco then that’s a legitimate position, although not one backed up by the crash statistics.



    Mine had all uncontrolled intersections and every kid walked and biked everywhere. I walked to school starting in kindergarten – unsupervised.

    Now there are stop signs and the kids don’t walk. More a function of parents eschewing the bus to drive their kids from outlying areas, making the walk catchment kids less safe.



    I come to a complete stop at all stop signs and signals too, but mostly because I work on bike advocacy and planning efforts and by following the intended design experience I have a full appreciation of how it is broken and what needs to be fixed.

    Looking and yielding to other road users with the right of way is what we should be focused on achieving, not just obedience of signs and signals. Stop signs exist because they help drivers to better see and yield to other road users, but it is the looking/yielding that is important not the stopping.

    If a bicyclist wants to treat a stop sign the same way as an uncontrolled crosswalk or traffic circle (slow, look, and yield if necessary) I have no problem with that, and in fact more yields on our streets as opposed to stops would help train people to slow down and start paying more attention in general.



    I recall that intersection focus being mentioned, but not entirely sure it was FotF. But then here’s a mention of it at Taraval Station:



    So you would be fine with being ticketed for entering a crosswalk at a light just after the countdown starts? And if your local PD station decided to crack down on “jaywalking” because some pearl-clutchers complained? The blitz would of course include scofflaw pedestrians who complete crossing well before the countdown ends, but have the audacity to use their own judgement as to whether they can safely begin crossing after the countdown starts. But since they weren’t following the letter of the law, they would have no right to be upset or criticize the enforcement action – just “fork over the money” and, um, write a letter to their state representative?



    Because once you have a license plate, you become a model citizen.



    does anyone know if the Park Station updated its “focus on the five” intersection list? Besides focusing on the top violations, I thought one of the efforts was to focus on the top intersections as well.


    Jym Dyer

    @DrG – “I don’t have any informed, substantive response, so I’m taking my keyboard and going home.”



    When I was a kid, my neighborhood had a lot of “uncontrolled intersections”. Let’s just say it wasn’t very bike- or ped-friendly.



    I complete agree. I found it absurd and frankly disheartening that cyclist would take that route.



    I’m ending this with saying, I don’t agree with you and you don’t agree with me. I think, frankly, that bicyclists are the surge of this City. You can tar and feather me any way you want. I don’t know you, and have no interest in knowing you. I know what I know. That’s enough for me. I think what the Captain is doing is GREAT and my only wish is that EVERY Captain on the force does the same thing.



    Intersections without stops freak me out. Whether I’m on a bicycle, motorcycle, or in a car. I get extra cautious

    You’ve just made the case for intersections without stop signs!



    Well there you go. You stop because it’s dangerous not to do so. That is not the typical case on the wiggle. But if there is a car coming through the intersection, it is. And that’s exactly what you observe there.



    Can we pick other places as well? SFPD is doing a “sting” on townsend ticketing bikers coming off Caltrain.


    Nicasio Nakamine

    Holy cow! A nuanced opinion in a comment thread? A+


    Bob Gunderson

    How hard is to understand here people. The laws were carefully applied exactly the same to these vehicles for safety or whatever.



    As someone who lives near the Wiggle, I have to say the bike-pedestrian interaction has been extremely improved in the last year or so. I haven’t been buzzed or barreled-down on or sworn at for being in the crosswalk in quite a while. Maybe SFPD deserves credit, maybe not. But things are better now.

    Anyway, nobody cares if bicyclists stop. Just try to pretend to stop if there’s someone in front of you, or say a cop car sitting there. (Of course, that would require paying attention enough to notice essential things like cop cars.)


    Dave Slavik

    Intersections without stops freak me out. Whether I’m on a bicycle, motorcycle, or in a car. I get extra cautious, because I know in my neighborhood the rules kind of go out the window, and I’m the crumple zone if anything happens on two wheels.
    Even with stop signs there is something (can’t quite recall the proper term) of ‘unrevealed threats’ that car that just careened around the corner and is coming down the block at 50mph. Something you can’t see because that panel truck is parked right at the corner. Those kind of things give me pause and I hold off a second. In my last case I heard the squealing tires and just hit the brakes in time. There are a few cross streets in my area why I may have a stop, but cross traffic doesn’t, and I hate those, because there is always a large vehicle right on the corner, so I am playing the “edge out and try to look” game.



    If the question is serious:

    Meaning 2: “find a way over or through an obstacle”.



    Sure, but intersections are not identical. Stop signs are a blunt instrument for dealing with a variety of situations. Sometimes it’s poor sightlines. Sometimes they’re put in on one street to allow drivers on the intersecting street to proceed at full speed without having to worry about cross traffic. Sometimes it’s just as a speed control measure.

    What if you didn’t have a stop sign when the tool barreled through? Sometimes it’s not safe to roll through, even though you have no stop sign. And sometimes it’s perfectly safe to roll on through, even though you do.


    Dave Slavik

    Seriously though, what is the big problem with it? I live out in BV/HP and not stopping and checking at lights and signs is pretty much suicide. (Hell sometimes even stopping and checking is sketchy, just yesterday I stopped and checked and some tool in a big white SUV came tearing down Lane street at 30 over the limit, blew the sign, almost took me out, and even looked out the window and mouthed “boo” at me as he slid around the corner onto Oakdale)


    Dave Slavik

    I make them out of flattened beer cans, I’m good. Also why I’m chubby.



    This is street theatre. I think it’s very telling that in the 100’s of comments on the SFist thread, none are discussing Morgan’s actual event, just going back to add another 200 or so comments on Sanford’s position.

    I’m not even sure if this is really even related to the actual problem – I mean it’s an interesting hack, but I don’t think it has anything to do with the crackdown.



    Let me dig through my kids 4th of July drawer and get you a medal.



    Your analogy is meh. Let’s discuss Red Light Cameras. The law is the law, unless it’s enforced by a robot against drivers, in which case it’s a repressive revenue grab.


    Dave Slavik

    Why is it absurd? I do it on the bicycle every day, and routinely pass the people that swarm around me and blow the light/sign. It isn’t really that hard, or that much effort to get back up to speed, and hell, I’m in my 40s.


    Mesozoic Polk

    Following traffic laws must violate CEQA, right? That’s why motorists never follow laws?

    Time to sue! I’m sure our friend Bob Gunderson is drafting a complaint as we speak.



    The fact we cannot say definitively that ticketing cyclists for not making full and complete stops necessarily decreases injuries or otherwise reduces collisions gets to the very heart of the issue: Sanford’s impending crackdown is not data-driven.

    No, focusing scarce resources away from the most objectively harmful behavior by the most objectively dangerous road users, –motorists–and onto bicyclists is driven by something else, something more political and susceptible to SFPD’s traditional and ongoing anti-bicyclist bias.

    And all the while, this crackdown will better enable motorists near and far to continue, without consequences, to commit the five traffic violations that the data clearly shows us are causing the greatest harm to the most road users.

    Bias, bias, bias.


    Dan Allison

    What is the purpose of the law? Most vehicle codes purport to be about safety, not enforcement, but how does a full stop rather than intelligent yield by bicyclists at stop signs contribute to safety? There is no evidence that I am aware of that enforcement of this code on bicyclists increases safety. If the law is the law, then every motor vehicle driver on the road is in almost continual violation of one to many vehicle codes, and should be continuously cited. “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson



    I think one of the best ways to demonstrate that the law needs to be changed is to show through an “action” how the law does not work – by following the law to the letter of the law.



    “Critical Manners” rides again!

    I never was able to get myself to one of the Critical Manners rides…can anyone who participated or witnessed that report on how that went?