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  1.  

    billdav

    I don’t see a double yellow line on that street.

  2.  

    billdav

    Erm, running a stop sign is not what they said the tickets were about. They said it was about passing on the left, and I can’t find a law that prohibits them from passing on the left on this street. Can you?

    I’m sure you’ll just keep venting your anger. Haters always do.

  3.  

    jd_x

    “I want to be able to walk down the sidewalk and cross the crosswalk without dodging bicyclists illegally riding on the sidewalk and riding through crosswalks.”

    Again, it’s all about you. You don’t seem to give a damn about the bicyclists’ situation … or, pedestrians at large since this sting is diverting resources from ways that could really help pedestrians. You have to realize it’s all connected, and we’re all (pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorists) safer when 1) we recognize bicycles are not cars, and 2) design our roads and legal system accordingly (which means separated infrastructure for bicycles and less severe punishments for the same infraction committed by a bicyclist or pedestrian as compared to a motorist).

  4.  

    roymeo

    Is it possible for one mind to both be really pissed about cyclists taking pedestrians right-of-way and even endangering them while at the same time also think it’s stupid to charge cyclists for riding to the left of a line of cars? Can all those thoughts fit inside the same head?

  5.  

    jd_x

    Easy. I never said that. Any bicyclist who endangers a pedestrian is wrong and should be ticketed. But again, that’s not what these stings are about. The cops didn’t go, “Hmmmm, where do the statistics show pedestrians are mostly likely to get hurt? Let’s go there and bust any behavior we see that threatens their safety.” Instead, they go, “Bicyclists think they can break the law and do whatever they want. Let’s go out there and show them they aren’t above the law.” That is bias/vendetta and not acting in the interest of the public because they are completely disregarding the statistics (which are what we use to set policy, not vendettas or anecdotes). They are, as *you* even said, are busting cyclists for not coming to a complete stop or some other letter of the law and not because the endangered pedestrians. If you really care about pedestrian safety, it’s impossible to argue that this sting is the best way for cops to improve that safety. All you can do is make some vague general statements about how *you* feel threatened and how *you* think bicyclists get away with breaking the laws.

  6.  

    roymeo

    “Rolling Down”

  7.  

    roymeo

    I’m sure Sanford has been hearing complaints from constituents about ‘those cyclists that pass stopped cars (that aren’t double-parked) on the left’.

  8.  

    bassguitarhero

    riding in the crosswalk is not illegal. riding through a crosswalk when you have a red light is the same thing as running a red light. you are supposed to stop *before* the crosswalk, then, when you confirm it is clear, you can go through it.

  9.  

    gneiss

    It’s not illegal to ride in the crosswalks. Please, find for me the vehicle code that makes crosswalk riding illegal.

  10.  

    Gezellig

    Yes, it’s definitely an issue of experiential empathy. The fact that SFPD officers do it on bikes shows how absurd it is for the law to treat bikes exactly like they’re cars.

  11.  

    roymeo

    Critical Manners. That was the shortish lived event doing that sort of thing. (I think everyone got bored of it and started doing Bike Party instead?)

  12.  

    roymeo

    I applaud the effort when it is actually targeting the dangerous behavior.

  13.  

    bassguitarhero

    I walk the entire length of page st to work every single day. I do not see cars roll through stop signs (in fact they avoid page st) but I do see bicyclists roll through stop signs and cross walks. When crossing Page St at masonic, octavia or franklin, I often have to walk out of the crosswalk and into the street because so many bicyclists are riding through the crosswalk and blocking it.

    That’s what I see. every single day. That’s my experience and my perspective. I don’t run into issues with cars. I do run into issues with bicycles.

    It may be different on other streets but that is what happens for me when I walk that street every day to work.

  14.  

    dat

    I think it’s safe to say that bassguitarhero lacks perspective but is so invested in his stated position that he cannot back away from it even a tiny bit.

  15.  

    roymeo

    Generous interpretation of SFPD’s actions. You’re attributing any possible action directed to cyclists as having to do with people being shitty and taking pedestrian’s right-of-way.
    If a guy stole a bike and rode down the street and got caught you’d say “thank god someone’s doing something about those people racing at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light in that Page St crosswalk”.

  16.  

    Gezellig

    after Idaho started allowing bikers to do this in 1982, injuries resulting from bicycle accidents dropped. When he compared recent census data from Boise to Bakersfield and Sacramento, California — relatively similar-sized cities with comparable percentages of bikers, topographies, precipitation patterns, and street layouts — he found that Boise had 30.5 percent fewer accidents per bike commuter than Sacramento and 150 percent fewer than Bakersfield.

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/05/idaho-has-surprising-progressive-traffic-laws-bicycles

    Note that comparable topography/street layouts/number of bikers/weather patterns/city size/etc. are far more statistically relevant for comparison than highly subjective (and ultimately unprovable) measures such as relative self-centeredness/absorption.

    After all, you’ll always find people even in places known to be relatively mild-mannered who still insist that people in their particular area are somehow worse walkers/drivers/bikers than others. That’s fine to believe that, but that’s not data.

    What’s more interesting than anecdotes are data, and datawise Idaho’s law has proven successful.

    In addition, there’s no doubt that in the US selective enforcement of laws (many of which really designed for bikes in the first place) disproportionately hurt certain groups:

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/19/fla-bike-laws-are-racist/

    http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/communities-of-color-bear-the-brunt-of-sidewalk-biking-enforcement

  17.  

    bassguitarhero

    they ticketed the bicyclists for riding on the wrong side of the road because *amazingly* bicyclists actually stop at stop signs and crosswalks when there is a police officer nearby. it’s almost like they know the law and simply choose to ignore it when they think they’ll get away with it.

  18.  

    bassguitarhero

    Bicyclists don’t get to put pedestrians in danger because they’re mad about cars.

    Repeat until you understand.

  19.  

    roymeo

    If the video matched the description, I’d say “Taking someone’s right of way and endangering them is really shitty.”

    Cyclists that do that sort of thing sure will learn their lesson when they’re ticked for something else.

  20.  

    bassguitarhero

    yes clearly i should let them hit me so i can make a better point on the internet

  21.  

    jd_x

    Like I said, it’s not about any one person (you or me), but about the statistics. It’s about what is best for society as a whole. If you choose to drive, you present the most risk to everyone (other motorists, bicyclists, and pedestrians). And not because you are a bad person, but because that method of transport weights the most, has the most power, and has drivers who are the most distracted. And we need to have our police force operating on the principle that those who present the most risk are the most regulated and the most severely punished. And given that we have finite police resources, stings on bicyclists are a waste of resources, especially since more people bicycling makes it safer for *everyone*: motorists, other bicyclists, and yes, pedestrians. The statistics bear all this out, not your anecdotes or agenda nor mine.

  22.  

    roymeo

    How generous of you.

  23.  

    jd_x

    If you saw the video he posted, it was as a dramatic as you said. I think I saw one bicyclist give a non-existant pedestrian the stink-eye before he virtually ran him over.

  24.  

    roymeo

    Probably too generous.

  25.  

    Oofty Goofty

    Thanks for pre-assigning me a rigid ideological position, but no. I drive a car, ride a bike and walk/use public transit and retain the ability to equally peeved by the behavior of all classes of those sharing the streets.

    Although oblivious pedestrians and reckless motorists seem to attract the bulk of my irritation. Hmmmm. Maybe because America has done such a crappy job of integrating bikes into its transportation infrastructure that it’s by far the riskiest way to get around. And cyclists who ignore that risk tend to wash out of the gene pool pretty quickly.

  26.  

    jd_x

    Nicely played. You are on a rampage on these comments to get your anti-bicyclist agenda out there. You’re right: I’ll stop breaking so many laws (since this about me breaking laws now??). Thanks for your rational, clarifying discussion points.

  27.  

    roymeo

    I feel it is quite generous to assume that if the SFPD is pulling people over for riding on the left of a line of cars that it must be because those cyclists might have ridden through a crosswalk with a pedestrian with right of way in it.

  28.  

    jd_x

    “makes ME a lot safer.”

    Ah, got it: this is about you. That’s what I thought.

    Meanwhile … I want the cops to be doing what’s best for the societal good. Not any one person.

  29.  

    bassguitarhero

    I want to be able to walk down the sidewalk and cross the crosswalk without dodging bicyclists illegally riding on the sidewalk and riding through crosswalks. The fact you don’t think that I as a pedestrian should be safe from being hit by bicycles is a problem.

    Stop breaking the law and there isn’t a problem.

  30.  

    bassguitarhero

    The one on Page St right before Octavia

  31.  

    bassguitarhero

    So you want me to be in danger so *you* feel safer, rather than following the law as written. Got it.

  32.  

    jd_x

    Wow, you are amazing. What do you want cyclists to do here? You want them to ride between the moving cars and the parked cars?! Do you ride a bicycle? Do you know that is insane and anybody who has ridden a bicycle understands taht? You don’t seem to give a damn about road safety but just about seeing cyclists “punished”. Because if you cared about road safety you would care about cyclist safety and wouldn’t want them to ride through the door zone.

    Or maybe you expect them to wait in line like the cars? And if so, seriously? If the bicyclists make “vroom, vroom” sounds, will that make you feel better about pretending they are the same as 2-ton vehicles?

  33.  

    Andy Chow

    In a 4 way stop situation cyclists take turn like other vehicles instead of darting out is more than good enough for me.

  34.  

    bassguitarhero

    And yet I, as a pedestrian who uses that crosswalk *every single day* do not see cars rolling through that intersection, they all stop at the crosswalk.

    But I do see bicyclists blow through that crosswalk constantly. Every day I walk through. They don’t slow down, they don’t stop, they don’t look. They go right through, because they think the right-lane of Octavia having a stop sign is an invitation to blow through the crosswalk.

    That is what I see every day as a pedestrian. Cars are not the problem. Bicycles are. I have to deal with bicycles every day. I barely ever see bad drivers.

  35.  

    bassguitarhero

    How bicyclists need to behave is to behave within what the law says. They aren’t doing it. It doesn’t matter why they choose to break the law, and the SFPD is reminding them that they are not above the law.

    Stop breaking so many laws and the police won’t need to watch so closely. Bicyclists have no one to blame but themselves for that.

  36.  

    roymeo

    double-yellow line?

  37.  

    bassguitarhero

    It’s actually a great use of resources because stopping bicyclists from blowing through that crosswalk makes ME a lot safer.

    And your vision of safety is not the same thing as what is legally written as safe and what has been decided as safe, much like the guy who decided to plow through the Castro crosswalk at 30mph and thought he was safe wasn’t actually doing so.

  38.  

    Andy Chow

    Changing the state law to permit rolling stop for bikes is a tough task. I think one way to approach this is to permit a pilot program or authorize local jurisdictions to allow rolling stop.

    People in their cars don’t understand why cyclists want rolling stop, but if they’re on bikes they immediately understand why they should.

  39.  

    bassguitarhero

    The police are ticketing bicyclists for being on the wrong side of the double-yellow line, which is a danger because they could be hit by motorists turning right from Octavia.

    Seeing as how cars can’t turn right onto Octavia without a green light, it is safe to ride on the right. However if you’re going to ride on the left, you have to do so in the same lane.

    In addition, a lot of bicyclists just ride on the sidewalk and go way too fast down that stretch, and a lot of bicyclists who pass on the left ride right through the crosswalk without looking for pedestrians. These are all dangerous activities that they’re trying to cut back on.

  40.  

    jd_x

    I think many would beg to differ. Point is: it’s not so black and white, and for the cops to be wasting time on this issue is a huge misuse of their limited resources in terms of actually improving road safety.

  41.  

    GarySFBCN

    You didn’t answer my question about Idaho (or where ever this data was collected. Are they as self-centered/self-absorbed there as here? I mean everyone on the road, including pedestrians?

    Regardless, I’m willing to support this for a 2 year trail period to see how it works and to work-out any problems should it appear to be successful.

  42.  

    jd_x

    “I am concerned about *anyone* blowing through a crosswalk without checking with pedestrians.”

    Then your priorities are misaligned because by far — by far! — the biggest cause of pedestrians getting hurt in crosswalks is from motorists. And while the cops are wasting time here and in other such stings, somewhere in the city somebody is *actually* getting in a crosswalk by a motorist and the police might have actually been able to prevent. You are completely irrational if you can’t understand how to properly use finite resources.

  43.  

    Mother

    The better option is ban all bicycles from city streets. Either go with the flow or don’t go at all. Remember, your a minority’s group.

  44.  

    Eddie_Snowden

    oh shit it’s an internet tough guy! please don’t lose your patience dude we’re super worried.

  45.  

    Dave Snyder

    This is another egregious example of the police not supporting the city’s goals, and the Mayor letting them get away with it. The MTA has designated Page Street as a bicycle commute corridor but the police are prohibiting bicycle riders from using it as such, reasonably, by prohibiting them from passing motorists queueing up for the freeway. If that’s the policy, then the MTA should ban parking on that stretch so that bike riders can pass without getting tickets. Ed Reiskin should be calling the Mayor to call off the Police Department from that counterproductive enforcement, or, tell the Mayor that he’s going to remove all the residential parking on Page Street.

  46.  

    jd_x

    This is about road safety. Which means it’s about motorists because the *statistics* bear out they are the greatest threat to our safety on the road. We have finite police resources and to see them wasting them on efforts that have negligible value to road safety (which is what this sting is) is why this is always implicitly also about motorists. You can’t act like bicyclists live in a vacuum and how they behave isn’t based on the (car-centric) infrastructure and legal system (biased towards the motorist) in which they operate.

  47.  

    bassguitarhero

    It isn’t safe to do so there.

  48.  

    bassguitarhero

    Stop deflecting. This isn’t about cars. It’s about bicyclists blowing through crosswalks without looking for pedestrians.

    That’s what this is about. Pay attention.

  49.  

    bassguitarhero

    I am concerned about *anyone* blowing through a crosswalk without checking with pedestrians. It doesn’t matter how many tires your vehicle has. Stop deflecting.

  50.  

    bassguitarhero

    I am not comparing a car and a bicyclist rolling through a crosswalk, you’re the one who can’t stop bringing cars into the conversation. I don’t want to have to dodge ANYONE while crossing a crosswalk, you’re the one who keeps deflecting.

    Clean up your own house before you start trying to deflect.