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    Have a nice vacation Roger!



    California is finally reforming its much-abused paper dealer license plate law… In 2019.



    Sure but, even so, you can[t give many examples of where cars have been put underground, except Boston, which almost everyone agrees it was a disaster.



    So democracy to you is “meddling and mob rule”? That is a stunning comment. You actually believe that people and voters are not allowed to decide what kind of society they want.


    Jamison Wieser


    Voters actually created the SFMTA in 1999 in part to isolate and insulate Muni and transportation issues from political meddling and mob rule. Performance goals were established for Muni and here we are with not everyone happy over what it’s going to take to make Muni work.

    SFTMA has to consider more than the preferences of merchants and nearby residents. Beyond the performance goal there are city and state requirements (some imposed again by voters) to reduce carbon emissions, improve safety, and on like that.


    1Hiram Sclafani




    Yeah, except that I’m not (only) talking about small towns in Kansas. Even when we are talking about “large, congested cities,” transit is rarely, if ever, exclusively underground. New York City, which has the biggest subway system in North America, has recently started putting in dedicated bus lanes to complement the subway system.

    Some cities have barely any subway at all. Chicago’s train system, for example (and I mean both the El and the suburban commuter trains), is mostly elevated, although occasionally some lines pass through tunnels. Detroit, for obvious reasons, has never had any underground trains. Houston has no subway. Miami, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Seattle, Minneapolis, and many other medium to large cities have no subway, either.


    SF Guest

    Resentment for opposing boarding islands which is a safety related issue is not bigotry for sure. Calling for cars to be banned from Taraval which restricts access to private garages and calling motorists pigheaded fits the formal definition of “stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.”

    The message presented is if businesses and/or motorists don’t go along with building boarding islands the next step is to ban motor vehicles which represents an anti-car bias.



    Sure, Alicia, I dare say that towns in Kansas don’t need to decide what to put underground. But we’re talking here about large congested cities where things have gotten to the point where “something” has to be undergrounded. And that is typically transit.

    I’d also refer you to Europe where, again, I can’t think of any major city were the major highways are put underground. But many of them have subway or light rail systems underground.

    Tunnels aside, of course. And we do have a few examples in SF e.g. the Geary underpasses, the Stockton tunnel and the Broadway tunnel. I suppose you could add Devil’s Slide although it’s outside the city and rather a special case.



    If by “almost universal”, you mean how they do it in the handful of cities in North America who have an actual subway system, then yes, it’s “almost universal.” Meanwhile, in the other 95% of North America, transit and cars are both on the surface. Even cities that do have subways also complement the subway service with a bus network.


    Boogey Buckley

    My business partners needed IRS 1023 recently and discovered an excellent service that has a ton of fillable forms . If you are interested in IRS 1023 too , here’s



    Sigh… as always, whenever a project that helps the overall good goes for a hearing, there’s always the big mob of pissed-off people who will say no.

    Thinking about the L-Taraval, I strongly welcome boarding islands, even if that meant sacrificing some parking. The people on Judah Street have boarding islands and took away some parking, but life continued on just fine. There’s plenty of ways to make up for the lost spaces like a wide enough adjacent street to accept 45 degree angled parking or maybe people finally cleaning out their garage and using for what it’s meant to be, parking your vehicle. Anyway, isn’t passenger safety more important?

    Traffic lights is an awesome way to make the train go faster. Sure, each installation of a traffic signal at an intersection is a lot of money, but with priority for the trains, it means going through an intersection versus coming to a complete stop and continuing on. This is done at 9th and Judah and 9th and Irving, the trains get priority to turn while stopping all other traffic and preventing pedestrians from crossing in the train’s path.

    As for cutting stops, it makes the ride quicker; can’t people just sacrifice an extra few minutes walking to the next stop? If it’s on a hill, use gravity people, it’s easier to walk downhill to the nearest stop.



    Do you really dare to blow through a Muni metro stop while passengers are boarding or disembarking? That’s extremely dangerous and the driver will definitely spend a nice stint in jail.



    Three minute headway, really? That’s next to freaking impossible because everyone else in this city would want three minute headways on their metro lines, and you know what that equals to? One little delay in the subway screws everything up because all the lines converge on it.



    I wasn’t thinking on such a grand scale. Just a nine block tunnel from Kirkham to Santiago.



    I never said that “only” the local residents should have a say, but rather that they should have a larger say.

    If we’re going to have neighborhood meetings then we must regard their feedback as significant.



    No, it just means there are less of them.

    I’d listen more to a local resident who rarely attends such meeting than an “activist” who shows up at every meeting, with the same predictable shtick.



    Well, they may not have taken a bus if they were hypocrites. But they mostly don’t live in that neighborhood.



    It’s the wrong term. If someone opposes boarding islands that i not bigotry, but merely holding different values.

    Someone isn’t bad just for disagreeing with you



    Both are true – there are certainly passengers who board or leave oblivious to their surroundings.



    It’s almost universal to put the transit underground and leave cars on the surface. Boston tried the opposite and it didn’t work out well.



    But does the percentage increase?

    VAT is also reclaimable by many, as I understand it, while many classes of goods and services are VAT-free like food, healthcare etc



    Accountability can be achieved without invasions of privacy



    It’s generally better to put transit underground and leave cars on the surface. Central subway is the model.

    “Big Digs” are out of fashion since Boston’s $20 billion project got less than stellar reviews.



    Transit First is not Transit Only.

    But it’s good to see you are happy with whatever the majority want even, presumably, when it does not favor your biases.

    A majority of local residents appear to oppose the plan for boarding islands and lane blockages for the L. We’re glad you agree the majority should prevail.



    That’s a project that might be more costly than the new bay bridge, when you count the sum total of economic losses due to construction costs.

    I can’t see how it pencils out.



    Perhaps there needs to be a survey conducted on board:
    1) Do you think this car stops too frequently?
    2) Do you think it’s unsafe when exiting without boarding islands?

    Frankly, whenever parking is moved within a square block, it should not be even brought up as an issue.



    Why must you post damn good ideas that I end up agreeing with?! In all seriousness, this should happen….19th ave is pathetically clogged with traffic and despite the 28R being MUNI’s best answer towards making 19th ave somewhat better(at the very least), there ain’t much else they can do…

    I’m glad most of the freeways that were planned for San Francisco during the mid 20th century ended in that historical “Freeway Revolt” but an underground highway on 19th ave between Irving/Lincoln Way in the north and the intersection of JuniperoSerra/19th ave in the south would have freed up 19th ave to be the bike/bus/ped friendly blvd you envisioned. Imagine that beautiful scene for a second..19th ave with no endless car traffic but instead a giant multi-use blvd and knowing San Francisco, it’d have a Europeanized look to it.

    Also, come to think of it, MUNI made a mistake when they made the 28 19th ave bus a bus line instead of a light rail line with dedicated right-of-way. Not JUST along 19th ave south to the Daly City BART station, but also thru its Golden Gate Park/Park Presidio/Golden Gate Bridge route all the way to its new terminal at Aquatic Park. With it following Lombard and then Van Ness to reach it all using its own right-of-way, which Lombard and Van Ness could easily accomadate. A 28 19th ave light rail streetcar line with an entire dedicated right-of-way(also having prioritized traffic signals along its entire route) would easily and obviously be worlds better than this hellaciously slow 28 19th ave local line that MUNI riders are sadly stuck with…



    Why not? Toll roads are all the thing in SoCal.


    Mario Tanev

    Nope. Not part of the problem. All injuries are due to drivers illegally passing a stopped train.



    I’m all for it if it’s a toll road. $10 per



    I think the State should underground 19th Avenue. The tunnels would carry the Marin-to-San-Mateo traffic, and the surface could be redesigned into a ped and bike friendly boulevard. Local buses could go on top, express buses below.



    Read the thread. I never said anything about anyone other than defending cgolis.



    Are you from this planet, I mean, city?

    “The L-Taraval should operate on a 3-minute headway and Taraval should otherwise be closed to cars.”

    “There is no reason that Muni can’t run a 3-minute headway other than
    managerial stupidity and pigheadedness on the part of motorists.”

    These comments made my day. Thank you. First of all, don’t blame motorists for MUNI not being able to run trains every 3 minutes. The fault lies with the design of the rail network which shares and contributes to all the problems associated with running on a street. Second, there is not enough demand for 3-minute headways even if the system could operate at that interval. Most outbound trains are empty during the morning rush (reverse at night). Ride it some time and see for yourself before pushing to turn an entire fog and windswept street into a car-free playground.



    How Robert Moses of you.



    I’d rather have the public transit on the surface and cars underground. Makes it much easier to walk and bike around, plus we can enjoy the view while someone else drives.



    “I don’t care if people die so long as I get to my destination 30 seconds sooner. McDonald’s waits for no one!” -Concern Parkside Resident



    An item got slid into the consent calendar for the SMART train last week.

    Basically, they screwed up the car design, and are going to reduce the bike capacity from 24 to 12 per train. They pretty much have to – ADA compliance is paramount, but this is very disappointing. Meanwhile a big chunk of space in the consists will be allocated to a bar car.

    Item 6g

    We have also been evaluating the designated wheelchair spaces on the DMU located in areas
    where bicycles are also stored. While it is clear that wheelchair users and other disabled passengers
    have priority in this space, we have heard from the public during our events and other outreach
    opportunities with advocacy/accessibility groups that this is not the best solution. After careful
    consideration, it is best practice to remove the potentially incompatible uses
    locating the
    wheelchair spaces away from high-traffic areas in order to remove the conflicts with the bicycles. This will require the removal of six bicycle racks per DMU (12 per two-car train).



    Transit advocates were outnumbered 2-to-1. By your own logic, that suggests that they had more of a problem showing up than the old retired folks who still drive their Chrysler K-Cars to the post office to mail some checks.



    The city has a Transit First policy. Don’t like it? Beat it back at the ballot box. The last attempt failed miserably.



    The L-Taraval is run by Muni, which is a city service that is funded in large part by regional and state governments. Safety improvements will reduce the number of collisions, greatly reducing the police/medical/court expenses the city is subject to. Also, the transit-only lane will provide more reliable service, reducing the cost of operating the L-Taraval. I don’t see how only the Parkside folks have a say in this when everyone is affected.



    This project will not remove parking. All it will do is move some spaces by up to a block. It is highly unlikely that a business will thrive solely because it has parking directly in front of it. After all, what are the chances of that space being open when the customer comes? In SF, it’s highly unlikely.


    SF Guest

    What became of your ideas to go underground?



    all public transit should be put underground to keep the street surface for cars, so we dont have to fight over space, and our capacity to get from point A to point B as fast as possible isnt hindered.



    lets fine people for waling on streets wth headphones and their faces in their phone. this is certainly part of the problem



    i think an elevated freeway over 19th would be an awesome idea. its a shitshow now



    activists who were bussed in from other neighborhoods

    I can hear that dog whistle from 2 counties away



    I prefer the term “Transit anarchist”


    SF Guest

    See the formal definition of bigotry below. Your definition aimed at prejudice against a class is a variant; however, my use applies where it’s a stubborn and complete intolerance of a belief or opinion.


    SF Guest

    Here’s the formal definition of “bigotry” from “stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.”