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    There has been some talk of rebranding the “Limited” lines as “Rapid” as part of the Muni Forward modernization effort.



    I realize they aren’t going to overhaul their nomenclature any time soon, but even after you thoughtfully explained that, I am still thinking too hard about it…which leads me to believe that there’s a better way out there to communicate what these lines mean.



    Steve are you a product manager? Keep whispering those sweet feature vs. benefits talk in thine ears.



    The Geneva frontage road and that gas station (if it were eminent-domained) would create a great separated bike path that would better connect this area to the Holloway bikeway. You could even do a plaza in the process! The pocket street as it looks designed appears as if it’s serving as a bypass for drivers who don’t want to wait at the intersection.



    Both buses and LRVs can share the overhead. The electrical systems are both 600 volts. The spacing between the + and – wires would have to be widened to provide room for the pantograph. If the wires are too close and the pantograph touches both wires, it would ground the train.


    alberto rossi

    I was one of maybe five non-staff, non-activist, actual neighbors who showed up to this meeting. The rest of the neighbors don’t come anymore because we’ve been burned too many times. For decades, the planners have been coming out with their pretty pictures of tree-lined boulevards. But nothing ever comes of it and the neighborhood just keeps getting worse and worse. Forget the trees: at this point I’d be happy if the city just enforced the laws against parking on the sidewalks and in the crosswalks and in the paved over yards. But even that has become too much to ask for.



    Double Berthing used to be regular procedure, but Muni prohibited the drivers from temporarily disabling the ATCS to open the doors. I suppose it takes a lot of software to replace a person with a knob.

    I also wonder if the ATCS really provides any benefit. The drivers negotiate all the crazy traffic on the streets, but can’t drive in a tunnel?



    Got it. So there is a need for two terms. I think “Express” is great, but “Limited” not so much. Limited stops are just a feature, a means to an end. People don’t care about features, they care about benefits — in this case a faster trip that saves time. So the name should emphasize speed. Why not call it the 5-Rapid. Or just call it the 5 and rename the old route the 5-L…. for “leisurely”… or “lethargic”.


    Jeffrey Baker

    I’d love to see the source code for the ATCS. It must be written with some serious static assumptions like “car car1, car2;” or some junk. They’d probably get much better throughput operating the trains manually.



    Limited lines stop at major intersections or intersections where other lines cross. Express lines skip whole sections like David explained below, but run local once the express portion is done.


    Bob Gunderson

    was 2000+ riders a day really worth the loss of 16 parking spots?


    Andy Chow

    An uproar? It is a private company open to competition. And a fatality isn’t a disaster either. All you need is to wait a hour or two and people can get home. This is not too different that highway fatalities and closure of the road or lane, which happens all the time.

    It may be ideal to have a bus ready whenever the train is down. (And I don’t know why you always pick on SamTrans) The reality is that there are only few standby operators available and time is required to get the bus to where it is needed. A standby bus isn’t like a fire truck and have to share the same congested roads like all traffic. If it takes 30-45 min to deploy a bus bridge, trains in most situation can start single tracking within that time.



    We are all guilty of jaywalking at some point in our lives so please don’t blame the guy who was hit, you think if he knew he was going to get hit that he would have crossed that street??? The driver of the car has no business being behind the wheel , sorry does not cover what you have done , hope he realizes that a car can kill specially more so if you are not sober.

    Our thoughts and prayers go out to the pedestrian and family.



    Because it’s not an express. The terms “Limited” and “Express” have particular meanings. An express bus makes no stops in the middle of its route. Example: 38 AX or 38 BX. A limited bus makes a limited number of stops in the middle of its route. Example: 5 L. A local bus makes all stops.


    David Marcus

    The 5 still seems to get most of its ridership from the limited stops. I wish we could ditch the 5 altogether and transfer its frequency to the perpetually overcrowded 5L.


    David Marcus

    Express routes in SF are routes that skip over whole sections of the city, like the 38AX. Limited routes are routes which just bypass minor stops. 5L is consistent naming for Muni.



    Edit: Let me rephrase – Does anyone know if there’s a good reason why they call it the 5-Limited instead of the 5-Express? Seems like flunking Marketing 101…



    They don’t. Until bypass wires are installed, the 5 is operating as a motor coach.

    Interestingly, some of the motor coaches that typically run on the 5 (New Flyer 8700 series) actually have the signal priority trigger, and not the trolleybuses (out of Presidio) that run on the 5L (the articulated trolley buses do).



    Im curious: How do these trolleybuses pass regular 5-Fulton trolleybuses?



    I appreciate the road diet on Fulton near USF and the Lucky supermarket. The old configuration was really narrow and creepy to drive on.



    Update: looks like a GGT strike has been averted!


    Andy Chow

    The challenge is the pedestrian overpass. The vehicles can share the
    lane but not the overhead lines. Because of the pedestrian overpass (the
    stairs are the columns for the structure), there’s no room for extra
    wires to allow the bus to use the LRT lane. With special wire works, there might be just enough room to share in one direction but not both. The ped crossing is valuable since it provides a relatively level path between Geneva and the City College (rather than going down the hill at Ocean and then go up again).



    There was quite an uproad amongst Caltrain passengers during the fatality, as Uber went into surge pricing mode with all the passengers trying to find a taxi.

    This underscores just how generally poor SamTrans service is, when riders will be willing to pay 8x surge pricing on Uber rather than a free ride on SamTrans to get home



    I’ve biked that section of Ocean exactly once. I don’t plan to do it again until there’s a bike lane west bound on Ocean between between Howth and Phelan.

    It’s a hill. It’s obvious it needs a bike lane. Probably worth making it buffered/protected/raised too.

    But won’t anyone think of the Level of Service! Fact is until there is a bike lane, I’m going to be behind the wheel, lowering your LOS score.



    Another brain dead plan from our good friends at the DPW, who like nothing better than center medians and “green space” with vegetation that require water, feeding and tending too. What’s incredible to me, is how they can easily find the space in the roadway to separate cars traveling in different directions from each other, and transit from cars, but when you ask them to create buffered bicycle lanes, oopsie – no space for that!

    I mean, the massive island they are proposing along Ocean could easily have bicycle infrastructure along with a separate light cycle for bicycle crossing. And if your going to create a big, green bike lane, why not put the parked cars on the other side of it? What a miserable, lost opportunity to create something transformative.



    Transit First! Vision Zero! As our old friend Mike Sonn used to say, Slogan-First City!

    It simply amazes me what a blind spot this city has for how long the jaw-droppingly unjust burden of car traffic has affected the southern neighborhoods. Fifty years of 280 and not even a goddamn soundwall for the residents of Oceanview, Outer Mission, Balboa Park, Sunnyside, Glen Park, Bernal Heights, University Mound, and Dogpatch. ‘Freeways’ branching off of freeways. A really hilly, challenging terrain that necessitates bike travel on the arterials. And yet, the city does little to nothing as usual and bike-haters get to gleefully point to usage statistics and blather on about how no one bikes in the city, especially not in those neighborhoods.




    Half-assed improvements result in half-assed usage. 20% bicycle mode share by 2020? The only way that can happen is when streets are redesigned to allow bicyclists to complete multiple block trips safely separated from fast moving motorized transport or if the number of cars on SF’s streets were to be vastly reduced.



    i would love to see this Ocean/Geneva intersection replicated at Bayshore/Alemany. Would provide a much needed crosswalk so Portola residents can safely cross to the Alemany Farmers Market



    He’s been there for the past few days.



    This morning there was an MTA officer directing traffic to stop motorists from blocking the box. Hopefully they can add a transit-only signal phase for a few seconds to let the bus through; that’s what’s planned further up Haight, but it’s a different project.



    Streetsblog, hire this guy already!


    Chris J.

    I agree. A month ago I called in to SF Parking a vehicle double-parked and blocking a bike lane and car lane on Golden Gate Ave. near USF: . I waited 15 minutes, and when SF Parking came, they didn’t cite them. They just told the owner to move the car, and then the officer waited around 10 minutes for them to move.



    I think SF Guest is ironically feigning outrage at the suggestion. Or maybe it’s not ironic. Either way, this little side conversation made me giggle:



    Heartening I guess, but in the meantime, I found myself two days ago wishing there were an actually effective method to report SFPD cruisers’ violations of right-of-way when I saw one blatantly sail past someone trying to cross at 19th/Dolores. I just know when I call the Mission station that the dispatcher is just shrugging and not writing anything down.



    What overhead wire “technical challenges” prevent the trolley buses from using the center light rail lanes? How were those challenges overcome on 30th St where the J and 24 share one lane? Or on church St with the J and 22?

    Come on MTA you’ll have to do better than that!



    A PDF survey is not what people want to fill out. Get an online version, the results could be tabulated faster with more participants.


    Sean Rea

    I’m not sure why this blog is praising them for their non-action. Double-parked cars make Irving even more dangerous as they push cyclists perilously close to the N-Judah tracks. The officers didn’t cite the driver — they just reinforced the mentality that double-parking is okay. At best, you’ll get away with it. At worse you get honked at by a cop.

    Contrast this behavior with my experience from two weeks ago. I was on my bike at a red light at the 7th Ave. and Irving intersection. Next to me was a patrol car with two officers in it. As the cross-traffic signal turned red a car came barreling through the intersection. Of course, even when I pointed it out the officers simply shrugged at me and drove off.



    “Much quicker and more cost effective to install than other solutions, Armadillos have been successfully installed and used by major towns and cities across Europe and North America for the past 7 years.” Sigh. Aren’t we all tired of being in a city that’s supposedly at the forefront of the tech revolution and yet is hopelessly stuck in the past?



    Glarg. I wish there was a way to avoid having to wait through 2-3 light cycles to cross Market on foot at streets like Sanchez and Noe. But I see what you’re saying about transit performance. *sigh*



    Cool cars-first story, San Francisc-bro.

    San Fran-”still-planning-like-it’s-1959″-cisco:

    Meanwhile, over in New York:



    Notice how even some of the “Befores” in NYC are better than almost any “After” SF has come up with of late. Fun!


    Andy Chow

    The problem with that on Market is that the furthest distance at those intersections are over 150 feet, versus 60-80 feet at intersections in Chinatown. That means those signals would have to be pretty long and that would affect traffic and transit performance on Market.


    Beef Vindaloo

    How did we get to this point where we are now writing articles to commend police officers for NOT doing nothing?? All this guy did was honk at a double-parked car until it moved… something that any non-officer could also have done. What about doing something that non-officers cannot do, such as issuing the double-parker a citation? Wouldn’t that be more along the lines of the police officer doing his actual job?

    I’m sorry, but this kind of nonsense really gets under my skin. It’s gotten to the ridiculous point where police officers are now getting praised for doing LESS THAN what they are actually being paid to do, which is enforce the law and issue tickets to people who are violating the law. Wake up people!


    Jym Dyer

    @Rkeezy – Most of the people on the SFMTA board drive. One has to wonder where this bogus 0% number comes from. Since Prop L is an advisory measure, it’s clear that it is an attempt to push rhetoric, and its demand that the SFMTA have motorist representation is rhetoric to make people think it currently lacks that representation.

    So throwing out the bogus number means that you’re either 1) deliberately attempting to mislead people as the Prop L campaign is, 2) duped by the Prop L campaign, or 3) duped by some other source, or by simple ignorance. Which is it?


    Ken Neville

    What does “restricted” actually mean?

    The Container Store on 4th street offers a very convenient online-order-with-in-person-pickup that I use 4-5 times a year when buying items too large to carry by bicycle.

    To use this service, you have to park in a parking garage whose only access is on 4th street, just south of Market. To make this turn, you MUST already be heading east on Market.

    It seems that this proposal prevents private autos from getting on to Market eastbound such that they can turn right / southbound onto 4th street — I would only be able to enter Market west of 6th, and would be routed off before I could make the correct turn.

    Packing all lanes of Market in both directions with buses and trolleys, and then expecting taxi drivers to respect *any* kind of order — now that’s poor urban planning.

    Market street is a disaster, yes, but it’s largely that way because it is an artery that cuts through two otherwise orderly grids of streets. Each of those grids includes a number of streets that are one-way-only.

    If it’s your first time driving near Market street, you’re screwed because you can’t figure out how to get where you really need to go. Even if you do know your way around, new restrictions are only going to make it harder to run legitimate errands with a private vehicle.



    Same roads, same risks, same rules. The risk of head injury per hour is not much higher on a bike than in a car (and the risk of death from head injury is the same)*, so any parent who drives their kid around without providing a helmet needs to get choked out by the cops immediately (twice) and their kid taken away. Heck, just remove *all* kids in the U.S. from their homes and call it done.




    This doesn’t make any sense. If there were, as you claim no “market” for development in Mountain View, then developers would not be able to sell or lease the units, and the prices would come down to a level that might be affordable to the people you claim would “NEVER afford housing in Mountain View.”



    The story about the man with his child strapped into a Baby Bjorn has to be one of the more ridiculous cases of police overreach that I’ve read in recent years. Largely, it comes from the mistaken belief that people who ride bikes should be treated the same as those who drive cars. In cases where drivers fail to have their children in car seats, CPS will indeed get called in (after giving the motorist a chance to call a relative), as there is typically *no other way* for the child to get home except by car.

    In this case, however, the parent could have easily walked on the sidewalk with the bicycle after being given a ticket for failure to have a helmet for his child. It just shows how “same roads, same rules” totally falls flat on it’s face as a way of treating infractions to the traffic code by bicyclists.



    “We based moving here on the quality of life of MV, knowing it was a quiet, sleepy, whistle stop town.”
    Actually, I moved to Mountain View in 1986 because I had a job in Palo Alto, *despite* the fact that it was a quiet sleepy town. I didn’t necessarily want to live in San Francisco, but would have preferred a place with more night life, like Mountain View is now.

    I don’t fear having more people living here in 4-6 story buildings in parts of town where there is transit or the density and walkability to support new transit. In fact, I want it.

    I’d love for there to be enough demand for transit that I wouldn’t have to wait an hour between trains on the weekend, and maybe the bus might go past my house more that its current 6x a day, M-Sa only schedule. I’ll need that when I’m 85 or so and may have trouble riding my bike and certainly won’t want to be driving.

    As for the Friday night story, that was an example. But neighbor commented to me that he noticed the Safeway is far more crowded than it used to be too, and that old-timers were complaining to him.



    So now we’re choking foreign nationals into unconsciousness and holding babies without contacting the mother?!? Wow, SFPD, keep it classy. Seriously, is there some secret agenda drawn up by our police departments to deter immigration or even tourists from around the world from visiting our cities? Because it is just mind-boggling to me how often I read about completely insane escalations of pretty straightforward infractions.

    Do I think it’s sensible to ride in SOMA with a baby strapped to my chest? No. Does the risk to the infant even compare what befalls them in a car, which probably has its safety-seat incorrectly installed? Yeah, uh, nope.



    Agreed. And all the 6-way intersections along Market!